Author: Uri Blass
Date: 15:25:42 02/13/02
Go up one level in this thread
On February 13, 2002 at 18:17:03, Dann Corbit wrote: >On February 13, 2002 at 17:53:54, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On February 13, 2002 at 16:19:21, James T. Walker wrote: >> >>>On February 13, 2002 at 15:38:58, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>> >>>>Black to move. The position is a draw, even if White could manage to win both >>>>Black pawns. But quite a lot of [top] programs do not at all understand this and >>>>show completely wrong evaluations. >>>> >>>>A good example where a 1500-ELO-player does better than the so called >>>>2700-ELO-silicon-monsters!! >>>>Kurt >>>> >>>>[D] 8/8/5k1p/6pP/6K1/8/8/3B4 b - - 0 1 >>> >>>I believe that playing the position properly (saving the draw) is more important >>>than the eval shown by the program. I think some programmers don't care if the >>>score shows that the program thinks it's ahead because it has a bishop for a >>>pawn. I think it's more important that it gets a draw when the game is >>>technically a draw. I also see many cases where one program will show a score >>>of +56.25 where others will show only +10.15. Does it really matter? I also >>>believe that chess programs do not understand _a_n_y_ positions. They simply do >>>what they are told and hopefully in most cases it is the right thing to do. The >>>score is simply a means to arrive at what is hopefully the best move. Every day >>>I see two progams playing on auto232 where they both think they are ahead and >>>even when they both think they are behind. They still play better than any 1500 >>>player I know. >> >>They play well but if weak players are going to ask them for their mistakes >>the computers may say stupid things. >> >>Here is an example from a game between 2 childs under 10 from the other forum >> >>[D]8/8/b7/5k2/5p1p/6pP/3B2P1/6K1 w - - 0 64 >> >>White played Bxf4 >> >>suppose that he later analyzes his game to find his mistakes. >>every program that I know tells him that Bxf4 was a big mistake when it is a >>draw after Bxf4 like after other moves that are not Be3. > >Every program I tried wants to slide the bishop along the diagonal. >Ba5 and Ba4 were what most chose, with one program choosing Be1. > >I'd take the pawn in a heartbeat. After that, there is absolutely no way you >can screw up. I think every human would do the same. I'd not take the pawn without thinking in a game(I guess that in a blitz I'd not do it) I need to calculate to see that sacrificing the black bishop for the pawn g2 or the pawn h3 later is not winning for black. I also need to see that the idea of black to put the king at f2 and the bishop at g4 is impossible when the white king is at h1 is impossible(otherwise black can win the game after hxg4 h3 gxh3 g2+) The problem is that if black starts by puting the king at f2 then it is a stalemate and if black starts by putting the bishop at g4 then white can play Kg1 and black cannot put the king at f2. Uri
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