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Subject: Re: Simple position - no understanding for many chess programs

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 15:17:03 02/13/02

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On February 13, 2002 at 17:53:54, Uri Blass wrote:

>On February 13, 2002 at 16:19:21, James T. Walker wrote:
>
>>On February 13, 2002 at 15:38:58, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>
>>>Black to move. The position is a draw, even if White could manage to win both
>>>Black pawns. But quite a lot of [top] programs do not at all understand this and
>>>show completely wrong evaluations.
>>>
>>>A good example where a 1500-ELO-player does better than the so called
>>>2700-ELO-silicon-monsters!!
>>>Kurt
>>>
>>>[D] 8/8/5k1p/6pP/6K1/8/8/3B4 b - - 0 1
>>
>>I believe that playing the position properly (saving the draw) is more important
>>than the eval shown by the program.  I think some programmers don't care if the
>>score shows that the program thinks it's ahead because it has a bishop for a
>>pawn.  I think it's more important that it gets a draw when the game is
>>technically a draw.  I also see many cases where one program will show a score
>>of +56.25 where others will show only +10.15.  Does it really matter?  I also
>>believe that chess programs do not understand _a_n_y_ positions.  They simply do
>>what they are told and hopefully in most cases it is the right thing to do.  The
>>score is simply a means to arrive at what is hopefully the best move.  Every day
>>I see two progams playing on auto232 where they both think they are ahead and
>>even when they both think they are behind.  They still play better than any 1500
>>player I know.
>
>They play well but if weak players are going to ask them for their mistakes
>the computers may say stupid things.
>
>Here is an example from a game between 2 childs under 10 from the other forum
>
>[D]8/8/b7/5k2/5p1p/6pP/3B2P1/6K1 w - - 0 64
>
>White played Bxf4
>
>suppose that he later analyzes his game to find his mistakes.
>every program that I know tells him that Bxf4 was a big mistake when it is a
>draw after Bxf4 like after other moves that are not Be3.

Every program I tried wants to slide the bishop along the diagonal.
Ba5 and Ba4 were what most chose, with one program choosing Be1.

I'd take the pawn in a heartbeat.  After that, there is absolutely no way you
can screw up.  I think every human would do the same.



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