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Subject: Re: Simple position - no understanding for many chess programs

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 15:54:18 02/13/02

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On February 13, 2002 at 18:41:56, Uri Blass wrote:

>On February 13, 2002 at 18:31:49, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On February 13, 2002 at 18:19:26, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>On February 13, 2002 at 18:16:49, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote:
>>>>On February 13, 2002 at 17:29:27, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>>On February 13, 2002 at 17:16:56, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote:
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>It seems that a lot of people in this forum underestimate Computers Grossly.
>>>>>>There is nothing that a 1500 player can do which a program cant
>>>>>
>>>>>How about "make coffee?"
>>>>>
>>>>>1500 players will occasionally see things that computers don't.  The hard part
>>>>>is getting to a position like that.  The odds of working your way through the
>>>>>maze to the point where you can see something the computer does not are
>>>>>incredibly small.
>>>>>
>>>>>Just because you can't see them does not mean that some 1500 players can't.
>>>>Once again it seems to me that you just dont get the point.In Order to truely
>>>>appreciate the Strenght of current Programs;you should at least play 30 games
>>>>at 40/2.
>>>
>>>I have done this.  I play at least two games a week at 40/2 (mostly against
>>>amateur programs like Crafty or Comet).
>>>
>>>>Also there is "No POSITION LIKE THAT".
>>>
>>>???
>>>
>>>>Also I am not talking about
>>>>myself.
>>>
>>>Then how do you know what 1500 players will do if you aren't one?  Clearly you
>>>would have no idea if you were not in that category.
>>>
>>>>Please keep the discussion at a nonpersonnal level.And give evidence for
>>>>what you say.ie .Show me the 1500 elo plyer and the position.
>>>
>>>Look at Uri's position down below.  A 1000 patzer would take the pawn in a
>>>heartbeat and computers are without a clue.
>>
>>The computer move is not a mistake there but the move of the child (less than 10
>>years old) is also not a mistake.
>>
>>The problem there is not a bad move of the computer but the fact that the
>>computer may say that a move is a mistake when it is not a mistake.
>>
>>Note that I believe that the child who played with white had probably rating of
>>more than 1500.
>>
>>I have rating that is close to 2000 but I need to think to see that capturing
>>the pawn is also a draw.
>>
>>The game was posted in the other forum.
>>
>>Uri
>
>I copy the important part of the game to this forum
>It was a championship under 10 and I know from expereince that there are childs
>at this age with rating of 1800.
>
>The game was a game of more than 500 plies because the sides did not know or
>prefered not to use the 50 move rule to ask for a draw.
>
>I guess that the rating of the players was close to 1700-1800 based
>on this game.
>There were no stupid errors but there were some small tactical errors like
>12...Qxc3 that is losing the queen for a rook and a bishop and 14.Ra2 that miss
>winning that deal.
>
>1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.d3 Nd4 6.Be3 c5 7.0-0 0-0 8.a3 Bxc3
>9.bxc3 Nxf3+ 10.Qxf3 d6 11.h3 Qa5 12.Qd1 Qxc3 13.Bd2 Qb2 14.Ra2 Qb6 15.Qf3 Qd8
>16.Qg3 Ne8 17.Bh6 Bd7 18.Be3 b5 19.Bb3 a5 20.c3 a4 21.Bc2 Qa5 22.Bd2 Rb8 23.Qe3
>Be6 24.Rb2 Nf6 25.Rfb1 Bd7 26.c4 Qa6 27.cxb5 Bxb5 28.Bc3 Rb7 29.Qd2 Rfb8 30.Qd1
>h6 31.Bd2 d5 32.exd5 Nxd5 33.Qg4 Bd7 34.Rxb7 Rxb7 35.Qd1 Rxb1 36.Qxb1 Qb5 37.Qe1
>f6 38.Qe4 Qc6 39.Bxa4 Qxa4 40.Qxd5+ Kh7 41.Qa2 Bb5 42.Be3 Qd1+ 43.Kh2 Qxd3
>44.Bxc5 Qc4 45.Qxc4 Bxc4 46.Kg3 Kg8 47.Kg4 Kf7 48.Kh5 Be2+ 49.Kh4 g5+ 50.Kg3 h5
>51.f3 f5 52.Be3 f4+ 53.Kf2 Bd3 54.Bd2 Kf6 55.Ke1 Kf5 56.Kf2 h4 57.Ke1 e4
>58.fxe4+ Bxe4 59.Kf2 g4 60.a4 g3+ 61.Kg1 Bd5 62.a5 Bc4 63.a6 Bxa6 64.Bxf4 Kxf4
>65.Kh1 Bc8 66.Kg1 Bb7 67.Kh1 Ke3 68.Kg1 Ke2 69.Kh1 Bxg2+
>
You did not mention the "championship" part, and I thought it was just some kids
at a local club.  Actually, it's probably a lot better move than I would have
made at 10 years old.



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