Author: Uri Blass
Date: 04:44:34 02/21/02
Go up one level in this thread
On February 21, 2002 at 05:32:44, Thorsten Czub wrote: >Firstival on has to say that Ed Schroeder has written on his web site that >Century4 plays not in the normal setting but in the anti-GM setting. > >I will not comment on this, since i do not have >enough experience in how this setting changes rebel century4 playing style >and strength. > >But what i can do is, to replay the >games with rebel-century4 macheide and other programs (on my Athlon C-1200 mhz). > > >1. >Macheide would have taken 12...Nxg3?! too (+0.36 for black). >Shredder6.32 (the leader of the ssdf-computer-rating-list) >would not have taken on g3 (0.06 for black Nxe5). >Fritz7.0.06 Nxe5 with -0.04 for black. >CSTal2.03 Nxe5 with +0.44 for black. >Gambit-Tiger14.6 Nxg3 with +0.12. > >2. >The next "strange" move is 13...Rc8?!. > >Macheide would have played 13...Nxe5 with +0.32 for black. >Shredder6.32 would have played 13...Nxe5 (+0.08 for white). >Fritz7.0.0.6 Nxe5 with +0.00. >CSTal2.03 Nxe5 with -0.01 against black. >Gambit-Tiger14.6 Nxe5 with -0.08. > >3. >the move 14...Bd6?. > >Macheide 14...c4 with +0.30 for black. >Shredder6.32 14...cxd4 with +0.43 for white. >Fritz7.0.0.6 with Nxe5 +0.25 for white. >CSTal2.03 c4 with -0.09 against black. >Gambit-Tiger14.6 plays Bd6 with -0.32. > > > >4. >the move 17...Rcc7!?. > >Macheide wants to play fxg5 with -1.13 against black. >Shredder6.32 wants to play Bf8 with +2.18 for white. >Fritz7.0.0.6 fxg5 +1.15 for white. >CSTal2.03 fxg5 -1.64 against black. >Gambit-Tiger14.6 plays fxg5 with -1.52. > > > >5. >the move 22...Qe8!?. > >Macheide plays Qe8 with -1.75 against black. >Shredder6.32 plays Bc7 with +2.56 for white. >Fritz7.0.0.6 plays Qe8 with +1.90 for white. >CSTal2.03 plays h6 with -1.67 against black. >Gambit-Tiger14.6 plays Qe8 with -2.52. > > >Conclusion: > >I think, when we can learn something out of the second game, >than it is how important it is to change computerchess paradigm. > >MANY chess programs are helpless against a human beeing playing >this kind of chess against them. > >And trying to be the best in the swedish-rating list will not >wipe out the illusion that getting the first rank has not much to >with chess at all. We are always talking about the programs >making progress. When i see Van Wely playing such a nice game, >i see almost no progress in computerchess at all. My impression is different I do not learn from one game that there was no progress in computer chess. What I see in this game is that Rebel did a tactcial mistake. It is possible to prevent it by better positional knowledge but also better hardware or better search algorithms may help. computer programs cannot be a pawn down with no compensation after their 17's move without a tactical mistake that they can avoid at longer time control. The question is what was the tactical mistake and how much faster should be the hardware of Rebel in order to avoid the same tactical mistake that Rebel did? I did not investigate the game enough in order to find what was exactly the tactical mistake that Rebel did in order to find if it was 13...Rc8 or 14...Bd6 but I guess that it was one of these moves. Here is some analysis of yace on p800(I believe that yace does not know much about king safety). The main problem of yace is the fact that there are many moves that seems to it to be not bad for black at move 15 and seeing that everyone of them fail in move 13 or 14 seem to be a hard problem for chess programs but I guess that they can solve the problem with faster hardware. Analysis of yace: after 16...Re8 17.g5 white has a clear advantage Wely,v - Rebel Century 4 [D]2rqr1k1/pb4p1/1pnbppNp/2pp2P1/3P1P2/2PBPN2/PP2Q1P1/R3K2R b KQ - 0 1 Analysis by Yace 0.99.56: 17...cxd4 18.gxh6 gxh6 19.Nxd4 Nxd4 20.exd4 Qc7 21.Bb5 Bxf4 22.Bxe8 Rxe8 23.Nxf4 Qxf4 24.Qh5 ± (0.93) Depth: 11 00:18:59 381319kN (Blass, Tel-aviv 21.02.2002) In the game after 16...Rf7 17.g5 it seems that Bf8 is the best move Wely,v - Rebel Century 4 [D]2rq2k1/pb3rp1/1pnbppNp/2pp2P1/3P1P2/2PBPN2/PP2Q1P1/R3K2R b KQ - 0 1 Analysis by Yace 0.99.56: 17...fxg5 18.fxg5 c4 19.Bc2 Bf8 20.gxh6 gxh6 21.Nge5 Nxe5 22.Nxe5 Qd6 23.Nxf7 Bg7 ± (1.16) Depth: -1 00:06:05 109653kN 17...Bf8 18.gxh6 gxh6 19.f5 Qd6 20.fxe6 Qxe6 21.Nxf8 Kxf8 22.Bc2 ± (1.15) Depth: -1 00:09:39 175647kN 17...Bf8 18.gxh6 gxh6 19.f5 Qd6 20.Nxf8 Kxf8 21.Rxh6 Qg3+ 22.Kd2 cxd4 23.fxe6 dxe3+ 24.Kxe3 ± (0.96) Depth: -1 00:14:55 265694kN (Blass, Tel-aviv 21.02.2002) let continue to go back in the game moves: Wely,v - Rebel Century 4 [D]2rq1rk1/pb4p1/1pnbppNp/2pp4/3P1PP1/2PBPN2/PP2Q1P1/R3K2R b KQ - 0 1 Analysis by Yace 0.99.56: 16...c4 17.Bc2 Re8 18.g5 fxg5 19.fxg5 Bg3+ 20.Kd2 e5 21.gxh6 gxh6 22.Rh3 e4 ± (1.10) Depth: 11 00:00:41 14662kN 16...Re8 17.g5 cxd4 18.gxh6 ± (0.93) Depth: 11 00:00:41 14662kN 16...Re8 17.g5 cxd4 18.gxh6 gxh6 19.Rxh6 ± (0.93) Depth: 11 00:01:45 34049kN 16...Re8 17.g5 cxd4 18.gxh6 gxh6 19.Rxh6 ± (0.93) Depth: 12 00:01:45 34260kN 16...c4 17.Bc2 Re8 18.g5 hxg5 19.Rh8+ Kf7 20.Nxg5+ fxg5 21.Qh5 Bxf4 22.Nxf4+ Ke7 23.Rxe8+ Qxe8 24.Qxg5+ Kf8 25.Nxd5 exd5 26.Qxd5 ± (0.92) Depth: 12 00:02:19 46911kN 16...c4 17.Bc2 Re8 18.g5 hxg5 19.Rh8+ Kf7 20.Nxg5+ fxg5 21.Qh5 Bxf4 22.Nxf4+ Ke7 23.Rxe8+ Qxe8 24.Qxg5+ Kf8 25.Ng6+ Kg8 26.0-0-0 Qd8 ± (0.87) Depth: 12 00:02:44 54599kN (Blass, Tel-aviv 21.02.2002) Wely,v - Rebel Century 4 2rq1rk1/pb3pp1/1pnbp2p/2ppN3/3P1PP1/2PBPN2/PP2Q1P1/R3K2R b KQ - 0 1 Analysis by Yace 0.99.56: 15...Nxe5 16.dxe5 Be7 17.Qc2 f5 18.exf6 Bxf6 19.0-0-0 c4 20.Bh7+ Kh8 21.g5 hxg5 = (0.04) Depth: 10 00:00:38 11983kN 15...Nxe5 16.dxe5 Be7 17.g5 c4 18.Bc2 hxg5 19.Bh7+ Kh8 20.Qc2 Bf6 21.exf6 Qxf6 ² (0.44) Depth: 11 00:01:49 33358kN 15...Nxe5 16.dxe5 c4 17.exd6 cxd3 18.Qxd3 f5 19.gxf5 exf5 20.Nd4 Qxd6 21.Nxf5 Qf6 ² (0.59) Depth: 11 00:02:07 39374kN 15...Bxe5 16.dxe5 ² (0.58) Depth: 11 00:02:30 46349kN 15...Bxe5 16.dxe5 c4 17.Bc2 f6 18.exf6 Qxf6 19.g5 hxg5 20.Nxg5 Qe5 ² (0.58) Depth: 11 00:02:59 54574kN 15...cxd4 16.Nxc6 Bxc6 17.Nxd4 e5 18.Nxc6 Rxc6 19.g5 exf4 20.exf4 Bxf4 21.gxh6 gxh6 22.Rxh6 ² (0.57) Depth: 11 00:04:18 85689kN 15...cxd4 16.exd4 Re8 17.g5 f6 18.Nxc6 Bxc6 19.gxh6 gxh6 20.g3 Bf8 ² (0.57) Depth: 11 00:05:22 104568kN 15...c4 16.Bb1 ² (0.56) Depth: 11 00:08:34 160672kN 15...c4 16.Bc2 Nxe5 17.dxe5 Bc5 18.g5 hxg5 19.Nxg5 f5 20.Nxe6 Kf7 21.Nxd8+ Rfxd8 ² (0.57) Depth: 11 00:09:18 173366kN 15...cxd4 16.exd4 Re8 17.g5 f6 18.Nxc6 Bxc6 19.gxh6 gxh6 20.g3 Bf8 ² (0.57) Depth: 11 00:09:18 173366kN 15...cxd4 16.exd4 Re8 17.g5 f6 18.Nxc6 Bxc6 19.gxh6 Bxf4 20.hxg7 Kxg7 21.Rh7+ Kg8 22.Nd2 Bg3+ 23.Kf1 Qd6 24.Qg4+ ² (0.63) Depth: 12 00:14:11 263640kN (Blass, Tel-aviv 21.02.2002) Uri
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