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Subject: Re: Kramnik on man vs Machine Interview

Author: Miguel A. Ballicora

Date: 11:36:55 04/09/02

Go up one level in this thread


On April 09, 2002 at 13:13:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On April 09, 2002 at 10:59:12, Mike Hood wrote:
>
>>On April 09, 2002 at 09:51:36, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On April 09, 2002 at 06:28:34, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 08, 2002 at 22:59:34, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 08, 2002 at 21:48:25, Michael Vox wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 08, 2002 at 20:24:03, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And if he were going to face Deeper Blue instead of Fritz, which would he claim is the stronger?<
>>>>>>
>>>>>>He already stated at the initial press conference that he feels Fritz on current
>>>>>>hardware is stronger than DB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This commone knowledge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>That is utter horse-hockey.  AKA marketing hype and covering himself in case
>>>>>the unexpected happens and he loses...
>>>>
>>>>Do you know names of GM's who say after looking at the games of deeper blue
>>>>against kasparov that Deeper blue is better?
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>Who won the match?  That is the important data.  When another program does
>>>the same in a 40/2hr match of 6 games, then we can talk...
>>
>>I agree with you in part, Robert. Deep Blue vs Kasparov, the score sheet speaks
>>for itself. My main contention concerning Deep Blue is that it was not allowed
>>to play more games against other grandmasters and (this would be more relevant
>>in 2002 than in 1997) against other computers. This has led to bloated estimates
>>of Deep Blue's playing strength. I am sure that Anand, despite being "only" the
>>world's second best player in 1997, is a better anti-computer player, and a
>>series of Deep Blue vs Anand games would have relativised Deep Blue's abilities.
>>
>>I have no criticism of Deep Blue as an entity, but I am very critical of IBM's
>>use of Deep Blue. As soon as the matches against Kasparov were won they couldn't
>>dismantle the hardware fast enough. "Let's quit while we're ahead". What were
>>they afraid of? Evidently IBM weren't as confident of Deep Blue's strength as
>>they claimed to be.
>
>
>Remember several important details:
>
>1.  Deep Thought produced a 2650+ rating over 25 consecutive games against
>GM players in 40 move/2hr games.  These games were played in tournaments, not
>matches.  That was deep thought.
>
>2.  Deep Blue 1 (and deep blue junior) played _lots_ of games vs GM players
>at various exhibitions.  I went to two consecutive SuperComputing conferences
>(We had ACM events at these conferences several times) and DB Jr was playing
>exhibitions against GM players at both.  I watched it thrash Robert Byrne at
>one, for example, in 4 consecutive games.
>
>3.  Deep Blue 2 was barely completed prior to the 1997 Kasparov match.  They
>didn't play any games with it prior to the match, except for what they could
>do to test the hardware...
>
>4.  Deep Thought searched maybe 2M nodes per second.  DB2 was 100x faster.
>DB2 was far "smarter" also, according to documents published by Hsu after the
>event.  If Deep Thought could produce a 2650 rating at 2M nodes per second,
>how strong do you think DB2 might be?

Against humans? maybe 2700?, maybe the 2650 figure for Deep thought was
overrated considering the "surprise factor" or the null preparation against a
computer those GM might have had. Who knows? On the other hand, I believe that
elo performance with increasing speed does not correlate in the same way that in
comp vs comp. Then again, is there any reliable data about what I just said?
In favor or against? I doubt it.

Miguel



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