Author: Hristo
Date: 07:36:20 04/10/02
Go up one level in this thread
On April 10, 2002 at 10:08:24, Marc van Hal wrote: >On April 10, 2002 at 02:48:48, Hristo wrote: > >>On April 10, 2002 at 01:24:55, Joshua Lee wrote: >> >>>http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=255 >>> >>>Kramnik may not know anything about programming but when he says Fritz was >>>suggesting objectively better moves than Deep Blue Played.....For someone of his >>>level of play to say such a thing. DB might have had extra knowledge than fritz >>>or any other program doesn't who really knows.....there is not enough >>>disclosure. Still i would like to see if anyone has found a position from either >>>match inwhich DB played a move that is out of Commercials grasp. >>> >>>I am pretty sure this is like the thousandth message that asks this question. >> >>Yes, other people have talked about this. >>Kramnik, might, have more than one reason to say that "Fritz" is better than >>Deep Blue. Some reasons, that we can think of, are better than others. As to the >>_truth_ ... well, here is the rub, horacio! >> >>1. Fritz _is_ better than Deep Blue, because Deep Blue doesn't exist any more!? >>This alone can be enough to clame that Fritz is better. >> >>2. There is no evidence, that I know of, that shows a direct comparison of the >>playing strength of these beasts. Which leaves the whole topic open for >>speculations ... >> >>3. Kramnik applies the best possible method to determine which of the two >>programs (machines) is stronger. He evaluates the actuall chess moves that are >>proposed or made over the course of a game. Most geeks, including me, get, >>often, stuck on other issues that relate to eval-speed, hash-hits, tb-hits, etc. >>... an we often lose the main criteria to determine the strength of a chess >>program. Nobody here, on this forum, would be able to sustain a direct assault >>in a regulation game against any of the top chess software. Kramnik can and >>will! When talking about chess Kramnik (and the like) can prove what thay talk >>about, the rest of us should sit back and take lessoons. :-) >> >>For all intense and purposes Kramnik is correct. >> >>Don't be so surprised. In another 5 years your PDA will be better chess player >>than Deep Blue ever was. :-) >> >>Regards, >>hristo > > >I think their might be a might good chance that Fritz indeed is stronger then >Deep Bleu There is a chance of this being true. We will never know for sure! >If Deep Bleu's posetional knowledge was so great then explain game nr1 >I also think that Deep Bleu's mobilety was much to low >Also if it had much more positional understanding it would have been able to >bring big disasters on the board (based on Kingafety)which never happened in the >match. Deep Blue made mistakes. Enough mistakes to put doubt in my mind as to its absolute strength. However, over the table (board), it performed rather well. >So my findings over the program Hardware fine >Software bad. AFAIK the _software_ was the hardware ... the IBM computer was something like a shell inside which they mounted another, completely different, computer system. >Not to mention that Kasparov did not have prepared himself for that match > True .. and tough-shit ... he got money for it and a brused ego. >The chance is big that Kramnik even can't win from most of today's programs on a >200Mhz computer without preparetion hmmm ... this is not likely. Most games I have seen lately are played with computers running at well over 1GHz and the results are not devastating enough to indicate the 200 MHz would be stronger than Kramnik. >and this preparetion actualy is cheating like I mentioned before. I disagree. ;-) Both sides have accepted these conditions so it couldn't be called cheating. >They could overcome this problem by sending some won games from Fritz7 >To show it's style >Rather by first bring it out (So games can be colected.) > giving Mr Kramnik the program >And then start the match. > >Fritz also never can start with a suprising move like a human can >Like Boby Fischer played 1.b4 Nor can Fritz start speaking russian in the middle of the game, like Fischer did with Petrosian (I think). Nor can Fritz complain about the lights, the chair, the camera noise, ... ;-) >Not because he thought it was good but because of the suprise. >Leaving the oponent unprepared. >Today this move is searched out much more then today but it only is an example. > >Then again if I never would have analyesed theory and put it public we would not >even discus this now. >(At least Boris Alterman did take use of it which can't be said about this forum >Who did deleted most of my important analyses. >For some small fees. >Which actualy means Chessbase and New and chess do not have copyrights over some >of their products,like they caim > >(In fact it is ripped Warez hehe)Hey I didn't knew you can copyright that too) >So I am also to blaim. You are a thief ... like me, because I let people in the office listen to my CDs without sending money to the record company. :-)))) Regards, hristo. > >Regards Marc
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