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Subject: Re: Sorry,Fritz 7 could be stronger,NPS means nothing between 2 programs

Author: Joe McCarro

Date: 18:39:00 04/12/02

Go up one level in this thread


On April 12, 2002 at 20:44:38, martin fierz wrote:

>On April 12, 2002 at 17:05:45, Mark Young wrote:
>
>>On April 12, 2002 at 14:28:13, martin fierz wrote:
>>
>>>>On April 12, 2002 at 03:43:16, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Sorry,Fritz 7 could be stronger,NPS means nothing between 2 programs
>>>
>>>NPS does not mean everything, but it does not mean nothing either.
>>
>>I did not say that it means nothing, I said NPS means nothing between 2 programs
>>that are not the same.
>>
>>
>> typically,
>>>NPS is a "design choice" of the programmer - smart but slow or less smart but
>>>faster.
>>
>>This is clearly wrong here, are you selling us that you can tell how smart a
>>program is by NPS? Your understanding is limited, if this is your bias.
>
>my understanding is quite all right, thank you :-)
>NPS is very much a function of how smart a program is. of course, if you write a
>program in basic, and get low NPS, this does not mean that your program is
>smart! i never said that. if you compare well-optimized engines (take some of
>the top commercials, fritz, junior, shredder, hiarcs, whatever), THEN NPS is a
>measure of how much work the program does on every node. in my checkers program,
>for example, i can turn on or off several features like enhanced transposition
>cutoffs, evaluation-based forward pruning and arbitrary parts of my move
>ordering. i can also add or remove parts of the evaluation function. everything
>i turn off makes my program faster in NPS, but it plays worse. the difference
>between smart and dumb is a factor 2 in NPS for my program.
>this is the design choice i was talking about, and it is the reason why people
>here always say "NPS means nothing". if you are talking about this kind of
>difference in NPS, it *does* mean nothing. talking about a factor 50, without
>the penalty of being dumb in return is another matter entirely.
>
>
>>How strong was Deep Blue 1997? How strong are todays micros? If you look at the
>>facts based on games played....It is clear your argument does not hold water.
>>What is Clear based on the data.  Todays top micros are playing better then 2700
>>elo chess. And playing very close if not better then DEEP BLUE of 1997.
>
>facts based on what? like rebel-van wely 2-2 or huebner-fritz 3-3? i don't think
>that these results are "very close" to defeating kasparov by 3.5-2.5! look at
>what kasparov does to these 2 guys:
>searching the big2000 database for kasparov - van wely gives me 4 games at
>standard time control - 4-0 for kasparov. in a match against huebner in '85
>kasparov won 4.5-1.5. in matches at STC, where humans prepare and learn, i have
>yet to see "better than 2700"... i know no other serious results than the 2
>above.


What about Gulko??



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