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Subject: Re: Smirin vs. Shredder - a question

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:54:31 04/15/02

Go up one level in this thread


On April 15, 2002 at 18:24:44, Amir Ban wrote:

>On April 15, 2002 at 13:31:37, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On April 15, 2002 at 12:46:19, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On April 15, 2002 at 12:29:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 15, 2002 at 12:24:08, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 15, 2002 at 11:52:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 15, 2002 at 08:56:27, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 15, 2002 at 08:17:04, Claudio A. Amorim wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So, are these the programs supposed to play at a 2700 level? Sure, they win many
>>>>>>>>games against strong humans, but... Where is their chess competency? Shredder´s
>>>>>>>>errors against Smirin were so elementary that they would not fit well in a
>>>>>>>>strong club player´s blitz game.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Let's not go crazy over ONE game! we need to ask these questions after the
>>>>>>>match, also you can not say "So, are these the programs supposed to play at a
>>>>>>>2700 level?" when this is a games based on one programs performance!
>>>>>>>Other than that i agree, it was not pretty...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Regards
>>>>>>>Jonas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think the thing that troubles _some_ of us greatly is this question:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Can you name any GM that would play a single game that looks as bad as
>>>>>> that one?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Of course, questions like "OK, how can a program play like a 2600+ in one game
>>>>>> then play like a 1900- in another game?"  and that _is_ a good question.  But
>>>>>>as the old proverb goes, "the chain is only as strong as its weakest link."  IE
>>>>>>Smirin could lose the remainder of the games (not likely of course) and it would
>>>>>>_still_ be difficult to call this a "GM performance" after a game like that...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>GMs do have bad days.  But not _that_ bad.  It perfectly highlighted just how
>>>>>>weakly programs evaluate king-safety.  _all_ programs...
>>>>>
>>>>>So far this is a Shredder problem, if the other programs play as badly then I
>>>>>will agree with you "Huston we have a problem."
>>>>
>>>>Agreed...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>We can not lable all programs the same, I have seen this type of play before
>>>>>from Shredder that is why I never considered Shredder the best program, no
>>>>>matter how many WC titles it has won.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No idea there.  Winning a WMCCC/WCCC event is different.  Computers don't attack
>>>>worth a flip.
>>>
>>>I disgaree that computers do not attack.
>>>It is dependent on the program.
>>>
>>>There are games when computers even sacrifice material for attack and in this
>>>game there was no need for sacrifices.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>Show me a computer that _really_ attacks.  I am not talking about just moving
>>pieces near the opponent's king, or sacrificing a piece for two pawns to get a
>>couple of open files.  I mean a program that really knows how to attack,
>>period.  With bishops on opposite corner from the king, clearing the diagonals,
>>etc.
>>
>>There just aren't any...
>
>Computers are tremendous attackers. It's their strongest point.
>
>Amir


Guess that convinces me....




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