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Subject: Re: can GM's learn from programs

Author: Ed Panek

Date: 10:22:42 05/21/02

Go up one level in this thread


On May 21, 2002 at 13:01:14, José Carlos wrote:

>On May 21, 2002 at 12:34:39, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On May 21, 2002 at 12:20:52, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>
>>>On May 21, 2002 at 11:07:46, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 21, 2002 at 10:13:29, K. Burcham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>The answer is as simple as clear.
>>>>
>>>>They can use programs to analyze games with from other GMs
>>>>and themselves. They can use it to analyze variations from their
>>>>openings preparation with.
>>>>
>>>>But they can't learn from it.
>>>
>>>
>>>What about tactically, can a player less than 2400 learn a few tricks from the
>>>best programs?
>>>
>>>Jorge
>>
>>GMs know tactically more than programs, so you can analyze with them,
>>but not learn from them. The computer doesnt 'show' a new pattern concept
>>to you. So you don't learn from the computer something. You can learn
>>yourself only when analyzing with computers, that's why i say you can't
>>learn FROM the computer.
>
>  I disagree, Vincent. You can learn from the computer. It is the computer that
>can't teach you.
>  No matter from what, human beings spend the whole life learning. From
>everything. You learn geology from stones, zoology from animals, physics from
>the planets and stars.
>  They don't teach you anything. It's _you_ that observe, make a theory, test it
>and draw conclusions. You can do exactly the same from a computer. You play
>against it; it wins; you study the game; guess why you lost; play again; maybe
>you force the same opening and change a move or a plan... Finally, you draw
>conclusions. And your source of information is, in that case, Fritz!!! :)
>
>  José C.


 Learning, IMHO is a set of exercises with a known objective. Although it can be
a vague objective ( learning about women) or a defined objective (how to
determine the volume of that vase),  the end result is a pattern that can be
followed the next time this information is needed with relative sucess.


 For example; A Gm plays the same GM over and over again constantly losing.
Through time if he is truly "learning" he should be able to draw more often and
eventually start winning assuming the other GM has "Learning=off" in his ini
file :)
 Is this Gm now better than he was before? Has he learned from the other GM?
Will bouncing a tennis ball against a wall make you a better tennis player? Will
it make you a better racketball player? Will you learn how to hit a ball?


  In closing I think that GM's _can_ learn from playing computers in a general
sense.

Ed



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