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Subject: Re: Rating swings on ICC

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 10:00:56 08/02/98

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On August 02, 1998 at 09:37:24, Don Dailey wrote:

>On August 02, 1998 at 08:01:28, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 31, 1998 at 20:51:56, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On July 31, 1998 at 14:00:04, Peter Fendrich wrote:
>>>
>>>>The ratings on ICC and FICS are really swinging. IMHO they are using a
>>>>completely wrong approach to handle this. The ELO formula is not at all suited
>>>>for the kind of events taking place on these real time severs. The original ELO
>>>>formula is using a kind of constant a 'dampening' factor for varitaions during
>>>>time. At least on ICC they have tried to use another, more dynamic but similar
>>>>method to handle this problem. There are new, much better, ways to deal with
>>>>this. Nowerdays used within some of the space, aero and automotive applications.
>>>
>>>Both ICC and FICS tried to use the Glicko system.
>>>
>>>On ICC, they made it an "extra" rating system, but I don't think anyone paid
>>>much attention to this, so it is removed from the "finger" notes.  It is still
>>>there, but to see it you have to use "yfinger".
>>>
>>>On FICS, they made this the only rating system.  I am not there much, but I
>>>remember seeing a lot of posts about this, people were upset about this system
>>>because if you played a lot, your rating tended to stay constant no matter how
>>>you did, and people wanted to have more movement in their ratings.  So I believe
>>>that on FICS they patched Glicko somehow, so that ratings would still move a
>>>bit.
>>>
>>>bruce
>>
>>
>>the problem with "Elo" is that the "K" factor was statistically derived from
>>the typical number of rated games a person would reasonably play in a year, and
>>the max expected rating change of a person over that time frame.  It is totally
>>wrong for a server where (say) a program plays 20,000 games per year.  Because
>>we see the huge swings that result from this.  Chances are that if you are a
>>2,000 player today, you will be a 2,000 player in 6 months, regardless of how
>>many games you play,  So it would be difficult to pick a formula that is fair
>>to those playing a dozen games a year and to those playing thousands.
>
>I wonder why they don't give people the option to use a smaller
>K factor?
>
>- Don


You can't do that.. It would grossly distort ratings...  someone plays a group
of opponents and decides which he can beat regularly, and then adjusts K to
maximize his rating increase...  expect to lose?  small K.  there's already
plenty of rating abuse there.  :)



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