Author: Uri Blass
Date: 00:48:25 06/25/02
Go up one level in this thread
On June 24, 2002 at 21:35:49, stuart taylor wrote: >On June 24, 2002 at 17:35:07, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On June 24, 2002 at 11:24:37, stuart taylor wrote: >> >>> >>>> >>>>=============================== >>>> >>>>[d]r1b5/p2k1r1p/3P2pP/1ppR4/2P2p2/2P5/P1B4P/4R1K1 w - - bm Bxg6; >>>>Rebel Century 4 : 38 seconds (11 ply) >>>>Rebel XP beta 1.01 : 21 seconds (11 ply) >>>> >>> >>>I like this position quite alot, because it's so easy (I mean tangible) for a >>>reasonably intelligent human to see clearly. >>>This is an example of a position which I always wanted to know if anyone of >>>2200 elo would ever miss. >>>Although I havn't seen it on a computer, so I may well be wrong, I still think >>>it is clear after ...Bxg6 (2) PXB R-7 check (3) RXR PXR (4)KXP What's the next >>>move? Yes >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>4...Re8. Etc. >>>From the point before B-g6 I'd be interested to know how many at 1800elo would >>>not find it easily in a game. >> >>The problem is not to find these moves but if these moves are better than the >>alternative. >> >>White is losing a rook and bishop for promoting the pawn to queen and there are >>other deals. >> >>I did not analyze it to find if the move is the best but movei does not find >>this line because it prefers other moves and the problem is not seeing Re8 and >>the previous moves. >> >>I believe that it should have no problem to find the moves if it use a bigger >>value for the queen(I will check it tomorrow) >> >>>Anyway, for computers it must be slightly more difficult than for humans. It >>>involves human logic. >>>S.Taylor >> >>I do not think that it involves logic that is special for humans. >> >>Uri >Uri you are quite right about a lovely combination achieving nothing more than a >litle acrobatic trick, whist the result is about the same as it would anyway >have been, or even worse, or only very slight better, according to some >opinions. >Please let us know about Movei with different eval. of queen. I see this >position as almost pure logic for a human. Not much to calculate, but just to >follow through a little. >S.Taylor ok Movei(16 mbytes hash) can find it at depth 8(6 seconds on p800) if I increase the value of queen by 3 pawns and at depth 10(64 seconds on p800) if I increase the value of queen by 2 pawns. Here are movei results when I increase the value of queen by 2 pawns and later it's results when I increase the value by 3 pawns(I believe that increasing the value of queen by 2 pawns is too much but maybe I should consider increasing it by 1 pawn). 8 110 354 666250 c4b5 f4f3 e1d1 f3f2 g1f1 d7d8 d6d7 c8d7 d5c5 8 111 363 681368 d5c5 8 123 487 907220 d5c5 d7d6 c5d5 d6c7 c4b5 c8b7 d5d1 a8d8 c2d3 8 123 985 1869880 d5c5 d7d6 c5d5 d6c7 c4b5 c8b7 d5d1 a8d8 c2d3 9 108 1342 2535646 d5c5 d7d6 c5d5 d6c7 c4b5 f4f3 d5d2 c8f5 c2b3 f7f8 9 109 1356 2557419 c4b5 9 131 1654 3116097 c4b5 f4f3 g1f2 c8b7 d5c5 d7d6 c5c4 b7d5 c4d4 9 131 3365 6534939 c4b5 f4f3 g1f2 c8b7 d5c5 d7d6 c5c4 b7d5 c4d4 10 122 4151 7984397 c4b5 f4f3 g1f2 c8b7 d5c5 d7d6 c5c4 b7d5 c4d4 f7f8 10 123 6400 12259517 c2g6 10 157 6547 12543840 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8d7 h7h8q b5c4 h8e5 c8b7 e5f4 10 157 7808 15000010 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8d7 h7h8q b5c4 h8e5 c8b7 e5f4 11 190 8690 16672537 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8e7 h7h8q b5c4 h8g7 e7d6 g7g6 c8e6 g1f2 11 190 13476 26322783 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8e7 h7h8q b5c4 h8g7 e7d6 g7g6 c8e6 g1f2 12 190 14579 28400527 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8d7 h7h8q b5c4 h8g8 d7d6 g8g6 c8e6 g1f2 12 190 26537 51217410 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8d7 h7h8q b5c4 h8g8 d7d6 g8g6 c8e6 g1f2 When I increase the calue of queen by 3 pawns things are even more easy 8 123 486 906727 d5c5 d7d6 c5d5 d6c7 c4b5 c8b7 d5d1 a8d8 c2d3 8 124 608 1138848 c2g6 8 168 631 1181682 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8e7 h7h8q b5c4 8 168 766 1446771 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8e7 h7h8q b5c4 9 259 1282 2407975 c2g6 f7f8 g6f5 d7d8 f5c8 a8c8 c4b5 f4f3 e1e7 f8g8 g1f2 9 259 1530 2905398 c2g6 f7f8 g6f5 d7d8 f5c8 a8c8 c4b5 f4f3 e1e7 f8g8 g1f2 10 257 2250 4351251 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8d7 h7h8q b5c4 h8e5 c8b7 e5f4 10 257 2798 5397534 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8d7 h7h8q b5c4 h8e5 c8b7 e5f4 11 286 6082 11380384 c2g6 f7f8 g6h7 b5c4 e1e7 d7d8 d5c5 f4f3 g1f2 a8b8 e7a7 c8e6 11 286 7882 15045139 c2g6 f7f8 g6h7 b5c4 e1e7 d7d8 d5c5 f4f3 g1f2 a8b8 e7a7 c8e6 12 274 14366 28046824 c2g6 f7f8 g6h7 b5c4 h7f5 d7c6 f5e4 c6d7 d5c5 d7d6 c5c6 d6e7 e4d5 e7d8 c6c4 a8b8 Uri
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