Author: stuart taylor
Date: 18:19:31 06/25/02
Go up one level in this thread
On June 25, 2002 at 03:48:25, Uri Blass wrote: >On June 24, 2002 at 21:35:49, stuart taylor wrote: > >>On June 24, 2002 at 17:35:07, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On June 24, 2002 at 11:24:37, stuart taylor wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>=============================== >>>>> >>>>>[d]r1b5/p2k1r1p/3P2pP/1ppR4/2P2p2/2P5/P1B4P/4R1K1 w - - bm Bxg6; >>>>>Rebel Century 4 : 38 seconds (11 ply) >>>>>Rebel XP beta 1.01 : 21 seconds (11 ply) >>>>> >>>> >>>>I like this position quite alot, because it's so easy (I mean tangible) for a >>>>reasonably intelligent human to see clearly. >>>>This is an example of a position which I always wanted to know if anyone of >>>>2200 elo would ever miss. >>>>Although I havn't seen it on a computer, so I may well be wrong, I still think >>>>it is clear after ...Bxg6 (2) PXB R-7 check (3) RXR PXR (4)KXP What's the next >>>>move? Yes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>4...Re8. Etc. >>>>From the point before B-g6 I'd be interested to know how many at 1800elo would >>>>not find it easily in a game. >>> >>>The problem is not to find these moves but if these moves are better than the >>>alternative. >>> >>>White is losing a rook and bishop for promoting the pawn to queen and there are >>>other deals. >>> >>>I did not analyze it to find if the move is the best but movei does not find >>>this line because it prefers other moves and the problem is not seeing Re8 and >>>the previous moves. >>> >>>I believe that it should have no problem to find the moves if it use a bigger >>>value for the queen(I will check it tomorrow) >>> >>>>Anyway, for computers it must be slightly more difficult than for humans. It >>>>involves human logic. >>>>S.Taylor >>> >>>I do not think that it involves logic that is special for humans. >>> >>>Uri >>Uri you are quite right about a lovely combination achieving nothing more than a >>litle acrobatic trick, whist the result is about the same as it would anyway >>have been, or even worse, or only very slight better, according to some >>opinions. >>Please let us know about Movei with different eval. of queen. I see this >>position as almost pure logic for a human. Not much to calculate, but just to >>follow through a little. >>S.Taylor > >ok >Movei(16 mbytes hash) can find it at depth 8(6 seconds on p800) if I increase >the value of queen by 3 pawns >and at depth 10(64 seconds on p800) if I increase the value of queen by 2 pawns. > >Here are movei results when I increase the value of queen by 2 pawns and later >it's results when I increase the value by 3 pawns(I believe that increasing the >value of queen by 2 pawns is too much but maybe I should consider increasing it >by 1 pawn). > > >8 110 354 666250 c4b5 f4f3 e1d1 f3f2 g1f1 d7d8 d6d7 c8d7 d5c5 >8 111 363 681368 d5c5 >8 123 487 907220 d5c5 d7d6 c5d5 d6c7 c4b5 c8b7 d5d1 a8d8 c2d3 >8 123 985 1869880 d5c5 d7d6 c5d5 d6c7 c4b5 c8b7 d5d1 a8d8 c2d3 >9 108 1342 2535646 d5c5 d7d6 c5d5 d6c7 c4b5 f4f3 d5d2 c8f5 c2b3 f7f8 >9 109 1356 2557419 c4b5 >9 131 1654 3116097 c4b5 f4f3 g1f2 c8b7 d5c5 d7d6 c5c4 b7d5 c4d4 >9 131 3365 6534939 c4b5 f4f3 g1f2 c8b7 d5c5 d7d6 c5c4 b7d5 c4d4 >10 122 4151 7984397 c4b5 f4f3 g1f2 c8b7 d5c5 d7d6 c5c4 b7d5 c4d4 f7f8 >10 123 6400 12259517 c2g6 >10 157 6547 12543840 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8d7 h7h8q >b5c4 h8e5 c8b7 e5f4 >10 157 7808 15000010 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8d7 h7h8q >b5c4 h8e5 c8b7 e5f4 >11 190 8690 16672537 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8e7 h7h8q >b5c4 h8g7 e7d6 g7g6 c8e6 g1f2 >11 190 13476 26322783 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8e7 h7h8q >b5c4 h8g7 e7d6 g7g6 c8e6 g1f2 >12 190 14579 28400527 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8d7 h7h8q >b5c4 h8g8 d7d6 g8g6 c8e6 g1f2 >12 190 26537 51217410 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8d7 h7h8q >b5c4 h8g8 d7d6 g8g6 c8e6 g1f2 > > >When I increase the calue of queen by 3 pawns things are even more easy > >8 123 486 906727 d5c5 d7d6 c5d5 d6c7 c4b5 c8b7 d5d1 a8d8 c2d3 >8 124 608 1138848 c2g6 >8 168 631 1181682 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8e7 h7h8q b5c4 >8 168 766 1446771 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8e7 h7h8q b5c4 >9 259 1282 2407975 c2g6 f7f8 g6f5 d7d8 f5c8 a8c8 c4b5 f4f3 e1e7 f8g8 g1f2 >9 259 1530 2905398 c2g6 f7f8 g6f5 d7d8 f5c8 a8c8 c4b5 f4f3 e1e7 f8g8 g1f2 >10 257 2250 4351251 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8d7 h7h8q b5c4 >h8e5 c8b7 e5f4 >10 257 2798 5397534 c2g6 h7g6 e1e7 f7e7 d6e7 d7e7 d5d8 e7d8 h6h7 d8d7 h7h8q b5c4 >h8e5 c8b7 e5f4 >11 286 6082 11380384 c2g6 f7f8 g6h7 b5c4 e1e7 d7d8 d5c5 f4f3 g1f2 a8b8 e7a7 c8e6 >11 286 7882 15045139 c2g6 f7f8 g6h7 b5c4 e1e7 d7d8 d5c5 f4f3 g1f2 a8b8 e7a7 c8e6 >12 274 14366 28046824 c2g6 f7f8 g6h7 b5c4 h7f5 d7c6 f5e4 c6d7 d5c5 d7d6 c5c6 >d6e7 e4d5 e7d8 c6c4 a8b8 > >Uri So, indeed, the tactics are no problem! It's a question of other things. S.Taylor
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