Author: Richard Pijl
Date: 15:41:04 07/12/02
Go up one level in this thread
On July 12, 2002 at 18:23:47, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On July 12, 2002 at 17:15:13, Sune Fischer wrote: > >>On July 12, 2002 at 16:38:20, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On July 12, 2002 at 11:52:13, Dan Wulff wrote: >>> >>>>>> I play white, you play black. The game goes: 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. Ng1 Ng8 3. Nf3 Nf6 >>>>>>4. Ng1 Ng8 5. Nf3 Nf6 6. Ng1 Ng8 7. Nf3 Nf6 ... It's perfectly legal because 3rd >>>>>>repetition must be claimed by the players. In this game, either you or me can >>>>>>claim draw by third repetition whenever we want, with or without making a move, >>>>>>because there have been some positions (4 in this case) repeated 3 or more >>>>>>times. >>>>>> I'm 100% sure about this point. >>>>>> >>>>>You're right. Either something changed in the rules over time or my memory is >>>>>failing me ;-). From the FIDE rules: >>>>> >>>>>'9.2 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by the player having the move, when >>>>>the same position, for at least the third time (no necessarily by sequential >>>>>repetition of moves) >>>>>a) is about to appear, if he first writes his move on his scoresheet and >>>>>declares to the arbiter his intention to make this move, or >>>>>b) has just appeard, and the player claiming the draw has the move. >>>>> >>>>>Positions as in (a) and (b) are considered the same, if the same player has the >>>>>move, pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same squares, and the >>>>>possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same. >>>>>Positions are not the same if a pawn that could have been captured en passant >>>>>can no longer be captured or if the right to castle has been changed temporarily >>>>>or permanently.' >>>> >>>>You are wrong........ Read the above again: "is about to appear" or "has just >>>>appeared". This implies that you CANNOT claim the draw if you play on from the >>>>3rd repetition, and for example claim a draw ten moves later. >>>> >>>>Greetings >>>> >>>>Dan Wulff >>>>(The Gandalf Team) >>> >>> >>>This is correct. You can claim it before you move if the position has been >>>repeated 3 times. You can claim it after you move if the move causes the >>>position to be repeated for the third time. >> >>No, you have to claim it _before_ you make the move, because only the person _in >>the move_ can claim it. If it is you who repeates the second time, then it is >>your opponent who can claim the draw, you had your chance before you made your >>move. >> >>-S. > >In my old rule book, the definition of "when is your move completed?" was >quite clear. You can do either of the following to claim a repetition: > >1. You can claim that the position on the board before you move is a >three-fold repetition, that you have been in this same position three >times in the past. You can make the claim, stop the clock and ask the >TD to verify your claim. > >2. You can say "I claim a draw by three-fold repetition after I make the >move XXX." You do _not_ make the move, you do stop the clock and call the >TD over to verify the claim. > >IE in either case you really don't make a move on the board, you simply >express your intention to do so in the second case and then call the TD to >comfirm the claim. > >Once you make the move and hit the clock, your opportunity to claim the >draw is _gone_. It is no longer your move. Your opponent might choose to >make a claim, if he can, or he might choose to make a move that makes it >impossible for you to claim a repetition on your next move... his choice. > >I don't know if the rules for claiming a draw have changed or not, but that >is how they were expressed when I was playing actively and when I ran a lot >of Scholastic-type events at the university chess club many years ago... > >However I am _certain_ that you can claim a three-fold repetition if either >(a) the position before you move has occurred three times in the game; or >(b) the position _after_ the move you intend to play will have occurred three >times in the game. You can make a valid claim for _either_ circumstance, so >long as you don't make a move and press the clock. And I think that in the >case of newer rules, you don't even need to press the clock to "end your move" >which is why you don't actually make the move that would cause the repetition. >You inform the TD of your intention to both make it _and_ claim a draw. > > > This is how I read the excerpt from the rules as well. Richard.
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