Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 23:09:17 07/15/02
Go up one level in this thread
On July 16, 2002 at 02:04:15, K. Burcham wrote: >On July 16, 2002 at 01:47:57, Dann Corbit wrote: > >>On July 16, 2002 at 01:44:57, Dann Corbit wrote: >> >>>On July 16, 2002 at 01:39:57, K. Burcham wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>I expect that they consult everything at their disposal. That would include all >>>>the latest FIDE, SSDF and correspondence games looking for a bust, as well as >>>>Encyclopedia if Chess Openings, Modern Chess Openings, Batsford Chess Openings, >>>>books on theory for each of the individual openings, and anything else they can >>>>get their hands on. It's their job, after all. >>>>Dan >>>> >>>> >>>>ok this is what I was talking about. everyone here knows these guys >>>>are consulting other GM moves and lines---all these moves and lines have been >>>>played by GMs. These GM have spent years studying to be able to play these >>>>opening lines on a GM level. then these non GM level "book builders" come along >>>>and move around a few positions in the lines and call this "his own book". >>>>I do not doubt at all what you say that these special program books add elo. >>>>I am amazed that these guys claim "ownership" with these books and are offended >>>>by someone else using them. >>>>what would a 2700 GM think if they read here where some "book builder", with a >>>>FIDE rating of 1800, posts one of the GM lines or close enough to it and claims >>>>that some other programmer stole the "book builders" moves or lines? >>> >>>The moves of an opening book can be copyrighted only as a collection. >>> >>>If someone takes an opening book and makes a few modifications, then claims it >>>as their own, that is a copyright violation and punishable by law. You cannot >>>go beyond what is "fair use" in copying intellectual property. In the same way, >>>you cannot take a novel, change a few sentences, and claim that you wrote it. >>> >>>On the other hand, PGN collections without annotations, are not copyrightable. >>>And information gleaned by hand from a large number of sources to create an >>>opening book clearly constitues fair use. >> >>I should qualify the above statement. There is some question whether a >>particular set of games can be copyrighted as a distinct set (e.g. Fisher's "60 >>memoriable games"). A game in isolation is clearly not copyrightable, and a >>large collection of games gathered from several different source is not >>copyrightable. >> >>If an individual game were copyrightable, could you sue for copyright violation >>if someone else played the same line? >>:-) >> >>>I doubt if most of the book builders are anywhere near GM level, but that is >>>irrelevant. They are not inventing the move sequences. They are only compiling >>>them. There is an enormous difference. > >If the GM cannot copyright his new "variation" in his own original work, then >why do these "book builders" assume ownership in their work? Like any other intellectual property, their many years of hard effort is protected by law. >It would seem if a GM has studied a new line and ends up playing it in a world >tournament, he knows that if other GM approve of his new opening theory, this >new line will be used by all GM and the GM that had the new variation will never >have that advantage again. Yes, of course. Otherwise, if you found an escape from an otherwise winning line, then nobody else could play it. Wouldn't that be ridiculous? > Yet these "book builders" want to hold on to their >lines for their own advantage. As is their right. >So if after a comp tournament we all go home and study--study---study the >opening lines used, and incorporate something played by another program in our >own program, some say this is stealing, or not the correct thing to do. Whoever said that? If a program plays a line in a public game, then that becomes public knowledge. For instance, the SSDF games are all free game for opening book inclusion. > >kburcham
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