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Subject: Re: Any conclusion on a previous post: A possible DB analysis move?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 16:34:04 07/28/02

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On July 28, 2002 at 14:31:15, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On July 28, 2002 at 09:38:03, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>very simple deep blue was known to give a big patzer score for a king
>which has open space with an opponent queen near it. You can get this
>out of several outputs from the games kasparov-deep blue in '97 too.

Pretty funny.  "was known to give".  Exactly how many games did you base
that on???

:)


>
>It was scared to death for a king which was getting attacked by an
>opponent queen. In many cases that is with reason. A queen is a pretty
>strong piece when it works against opponent king!
>
>>On July 28, 2002 at 02:48:28, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On July 27, 2002 at 23:10:10, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>Oh that position, yeah there the Deep Blue search system
>>>which are focussed upon mate threats, they should
>>>work well there.
>>>
>>>Crafty is a bad compare here.
>>>
>>>>On July 27, 2002 at 19:57:39, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 27, 2002 at 09:02:13, Alvaro Jose Povoa Cardoso wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>what the hell do you talk about?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>He is talking about the Nf6+ move crafty played against chessmaster in
>>>>the KKUP tournament a few years ago.  Crafty saw a draw score after a 13-14
>>>>ply search.  Hsu sent me some brief output from Deep Blue Junior that showed
>>>>that in under 2 minutes, it saw our score as +2.5...  Several moves into the
>>>>game Crafty failed high and finally agreed.  DB Jr saw it very quickly while
>>>>everyone else is taking quite a long time compared to their two minutes.  Note
>>>>that this was DB Jr model 1, not the 1997 version...
>>>
>>>r1b1r1k1/1q3ppp/ppn5/2bNp3/P4B2/5Q1P/BP3PP1/R2R2K1 w - - 2 19
>>>
>>>DB jr is just as good as the 97 version, considering their parallel
>>>speedup extrapolation.
>>>
>>>>>I can show you a bunch of bad moves DBII made against kasparov
>>>>>which no other computer makes, but i don't see a single good
>>>>>move DB makes which todays software doesn't find.
>>>
>>>>This was simply an attempt to compare their tactics to ours.  At least in
>>>
>>>To that of crafty of course ,which isn't doing many checks in qsearch
>>>nor extending mate threats a lot. nor extending singular stuff.
>>>
>>>in this case the system as they describe how they extend works great
>>>of course. I bet Brutus will find this easily too.
>>>
>>>BTW did Hsu give an output?
>>>
>>>because all the things i hear is always like: "he told me".
>>>I want to see outputs :)
>>>
>>>it could be true he just made a few moves and then got the score.
>>>i remember an analysis of it a few years ago. if you give a big patzer
>>>score for king safety you sure can get +2.xx there,
>>
>>I've read your argument at least for the second time, Vincent. Could you please
>>describe the logic behind it so that a non-programmer is able to follow you?
>>Second question, would you agree, that, if such "scorings" could be done
>>experimentally, then the known efforts to "prove" that something was doable in
>>DB2 just by showing that today's PC are also capable to do it, that this is at
>>least a weak experimental design? For me the logic of such proofs is false. Am I
>>right or wrong?
>>
>>Rolf Tueschen
>>
>>
>>> otherwise it's a
>>>pretty deep combi to see you win a piece on g6 using a pin of a pawn h4 h5.
>>>
>>>>this position, theirs is better.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Sorry to return to this old post by Dr. Robert Hyatt, but I red it a little
>>>>>>late.
>>>>>>I know this is just one position, but I was wondering what conclusions could we
>>>>>>take from this test?
>>>>>>It seamed to me that current programs were a little slow in finding the winning
>>>>>>score (not the move).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Any comments?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Best regards,
>>>>>>Alvaro



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