Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 18:41:30 07/28/02
Go up one level in this thread
On July 28, 2002 at 21:03:38, Christophe Theron wrote: >On July 28, 2002 at 12:59:57, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On July 28, 2002 at 10:00:27, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >> >>>On July 27, 2002 at 23:14:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On July 27, 2002 at 19:38:20, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 26, 2002 at 23:14:14, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 26, 2002 at 15:08:26, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Detlev Pordzik again. After the first complaint the moderators did not even >>>>>>>answer me. So this is the consequence. Pordzik thinks that he had the right to >>>>>>>violate the charta of CCC which says that personal attacks are forbidden. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>There have been _zero_ complaints. At least _I_ have received no complaints. >>>>>>I assume the other two moderators have not either since we _all_ get the >>>>>>complaints sent to us individually. >>>>> >>>>>Bob, >>>>> >>>>>if you insist, I can well publish the two texts CCC sent me in reaction to the >>>>>emails I sent to you (the moderators). Because when you send such a message >>>>>there is automatic message with text and the details of the time and so on. >>>>> >>>>>I quoted the numbers of the particular messages from "Pordzik" and simply >>>>>pointed out why his messages were abusive in the light of the charta of CCC. >>>>> >>>>>Take e.g. the second complaint. There he states in his message that he couldn't >>>>>find any ranking place for me whatsoever. He then concludes that therefore my >>>>>contributions here are (I sum up his view) worthless. This is only a very short >>>>>summary. But - since I do not teach chess theory here, there is absolutely no >>>>>sense in such a message. The only reason for such a message is the personal >>>>>attack and so the abuse of the charta here that forbids personal attacks. >>>> >>>>Fell free to post them or email them to me. I did not receive them unless >>>>I was sedated without my knowledge... >>> >>>The evidence is right below here in the posting, actually it was already there >>>_before_ you wrote the little joke above. A joke because - as you described - >>>all three moderators get copies of such emails. Since I got the affirmation back >>>from your server it's clear that you should have them too - at least unless you >>>were sedated, of course without your knowledge... But in my case three >>>moderators should have been sedated without their knowledge, and this two times >>>in the last couple of days. Looks spooky somehow. I'm very worried about you >>>because if it's epidemic, then it's already world-wide since Christophe is miles >>>away from the USA. Of course there could be a different solution. >> >> >>I have not received _any_ moderator email complaints in the past couple of >>weeks? Any other moderator getting these from Rolf? >> >>I am getting daily moderator email from ICC about new folks signing up, >>but the only things I remember recently were a few users asking us to remove >>things they had posted themselves, or a couple of other complaints that are >>not Rolf-related... >> >>Any moderator recall anything different? > > > >I confirm that I have not received Rolf's messages. > >Rolf, just send them again. It seems that they have been lost in cyberspace, >together with the dozens emails of mine that get lost each month in the same >way. > >Email is NOT reliable. > > > > Christophe I don't think that is the problem. I think we have a problem with what is often called "vapor-email"... Email that was _not_ sent. I get daily ICC moderator messages about new sign-ups. I'm not losing email that I can detect. Which only leaves one conclusion... > > > > >>>We still have the minor important question if in CCC it should be allowed to >>>commit character assassination by calling a member (and then if the member is >>>me) "steered underground assasinate". I agree that for the moment the question >>>of the where abouts of the emails must have absolute priority for you. Until >>>then you can't have any informations concerning the content of the two emails - >>>unfortunately. >>> >>>Rolf Tueschen >>> >> >> >>I think it is a testament to the moderators past and present that you are >>allowed to post here, _period_ after your nonsense in r.g.c.c... I suggest >>that you simply stop your nonsense here and post reasonable stuff. If you >>start to demand moderation policy changes, it is very possible that _you_ >>will be the first recipient of those changes... >> >> >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Everybody might have personal opinions about anyone but the intensiously >>>>>directed personal attack is by definition insultive and forbidden here. >>>>> >>>>>I want to claim for me the right that also in my case the charta of CCC should >>>>>be respected. >>>>> >>>>>If the mentioned author would have brought forward any reasonable arguments why >>>>>I was wrong in a message I would surely have responded him. >>>>> >>>>>Let me shortly lead your attention on his first insultive message. There he >>>>>wrote expressis verbis the following that this chap or whatever, from the >>>>>_context_ it's absolutely clear that he meant me, that I were a (quote) "steered >>>>>underground assassinate" in some German newsgroups etc. pp. This is absolute >>>>>fantasy. Therefore and also because this has nothing to do with computerchess >>>>>and surely not this forum, it is abusive and character assassination. Because >>>>>the job of a mole or whatever is not directly what is estimated as honorable >>>>>profession. But since it is absolutely false in my case, it is character >>>>>assassination. And this here right in the middle of this forum, where personal >>>>>attacks already are forbidden. >>>>> >>>>>Beyond many differences which we two might have, I think, we do both believe in >>>>>th freedom of speech. But in the Pordzik case the mentioned author has _not_ >>>>>taken part in the debates here where I was involved. Then suddenly he writes >>>>>such insults. Alone from that angle it must be clear that he has a personal axe >>>>>to grind. But, the hype is, that he doesn't want to discuss his insults, but he >>>>>is proud to write against me that his sole intention is (suddenly! - because >>>>>earlier this year he invited me repeatedly to write in his own forum and he >>>>>telephoned with me in hour-long chats) to prevent that I could write my >>>>>opinions. Beyond all our differences I see no reason at all that you should be >>>>>interested in such intentions. Because, I might be "lame" in my thought process, >>>>>I might be a bad English writer, but you wouldn't assume that my opinions had no >>>>>content, when I based my opinions and more so questions on pure science and >>>>>logic, in the SSDF or DB2 threads. The mentioned author however has repeatedly >>>>>informed me that any form of critic is in his view unwanted and simply not >>>>>clever. And also negative for mutual relationships. Of course such a view is >>>>>reasonable in business. But here we do not have just business I think. Here we >>>>>can discuss on the base of science and logic. >>>>> >>>>>I learned a lot from POPPER and other scientists of science. Progress is always >>>>>a consequence of "conjectures" and "refutations". This has no personal nor >>>>>abusive content whatsoever. >>>>> >>>>>Of course friendship is of highest value. But the negative side is when >>>>>friendship is often misinterpreted as partizanship. I did never belong to a side >>>>>or certain interests. I'm independant. And therefore such character >>>>>assassinations are very evil. In truth I did never work for someone against >>>>>someone else. POPPER described what happens with 'closed' systems of thought. >>>>> >>>>>Will you deny me here the right of protection against such unfounded, ugly, >>>>>personal attacks in the Pordzik-style? "Steered underground assassinative"? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>>> >>>>>Here are the texts I got from CCC for my complaints I sent to moderators, I made >>>>>unreadable certain parts because this was email: >>>>> >>>>>The following message has been sent to ccc@icdchess.com: >>>>>From: rtueschen@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) >>>>>Subject: CCC Moderator E-mail >>>>> >>>>>Reply-to: rtueschen@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) >>>>>[ name: ] Rolf Tueschen >>>>>[ email: ] rtueschen@t-online.de >>>>>[ body: ] >>>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>>in the message 242 711 Detlev Pordzik again wrote completely off-topic only >>>>>about me. This is called ad hominem. I beg you to do something against such >>>>>personal attacks because they are forbidden after the charta of CCC. >>>>> >>>>>Thank you >>>>> >>>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>>>[ user: ] xxxxxx >>>>>--- >>>>>This message was sent to you by xxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>on Fri Jul 26 19:04:42 2002 (GMT). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>The following message has been sent to ccc@icdchess.com: >>>>>From: rtueschen@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) >>>>>Subject: CCC Moderator E-mail >>>>> >>>>>Reply-to: rtueschen@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) >>>>>[ name: ] Rolf Tueschen >>>>>[ email: ] rtueschen@t-online.de >>>>>[ body: ] >>>>> Hi! >>>>> >>>>>The posting 242364 from Detlev Pordzik contains clearly put insults and >>>>>character assassination. [xxxxxxx snipped two paragraphes for personal reasons >>>>>since this was email!] >>>>> >>>>>I hereby ask you to delete the posting nr. 242364 and tell Detlef to stop the >>>>>nonsense. >>>>> >>>>>If you should have any questions to me please contact me, I'm willing to solve >>>>>the conflict. I hope that you won't let here in CCC poeple insulted. >>>>> >>>>>Thanks to anyone here who reads this as moderator. >>>>> >>>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>>>[ user: ] xxxxx >>>>>--- >>>>>This message was sent to you by xxxxxxxx >>>>>on Wed Jul 24 18:35:21 2002 (GMT).
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