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Subject: Re: SSDF Rating List 02-07-30

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 09:55:53 08/01/02

Go up one level in this thread


On August 01, 2002 at 12:52:23, Pointer wrote:

>On August 01, 2002 at 10:32:58, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On August 01, 2002 at 10:05:48, Pointer wrote:
>>
>>>On July 31, 2002 at 14:24:46, Mike S. wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 31, 2002 at 14:00:23, pavel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>(...)
>>>>>That rating list will suggest strength of the program based only on those 1000
>>>>>positions, and thus can be easily tweaked by anyone to play good only on those
>>>>>1000 positions.
>>>>
>>>>By including 1.000 mini-books for those positions. Or use carefully tuned sets
>>>>of parameters the engine activates, depending on the position.
>>>>
>>>>But not by normal means IMO. What is good for position #1, may be bad for
>>>>position #2, etc.etc. "Easily tweaked by anyone" seems a bit optimistic :o)
>>>>
>>>>Referring to the idea itself, I think anything which is more complicated that
>>>>"ready, steady, go!" won't ever be done by SSDF. Their methods will remain
>>>>simple, common critizism and suggestions which I read regularly since I'm
>>>>online, are usually ignored.
>>>>
>>>>Baseline: If you want a rating list done differently, you have to do it yourself
>>>>(which many people do).
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>M.Scheidl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>You both are wrong!
>>>
>>>
>>>When you optimize your programm to play these 1000 different positions
>>>successfully you generally increase the playing strength of your pogram.
>>>
>>>Even the 20 NUNN positions are enough for a generally increase of the playing
>>>strength by tuning only these 20 positions. But the NUNN positions could
>>>be a bit too special. You would get a NUNN-Elo instead of a average-chess-ELO
>>>strength.
>>>
>>>Books are NOT allowed.
>>>The programs play without any book, beginning at the selected starting
>>>positions. (it's clear, i dont know how you got the idea of 1000 mini-books ...)
>>
>>You cannot forbid books because there is no practical way to
>>know that book are not used without the source code.
>
>
>
>
>from the theoretical point of view you are right!
>
>but in reality all people can observe the thinking line, and the chessprogrammer
>has a VERY BIG job to make the thinking line consistence to the moves
>saved in the 'secret' book. instead of wasting years of full-day work to
>integrate 1000 tricky-secret-opening-books in his programm he should better work
>at the chess-engine
>
>
>>
>>The only thing that you can do is to limit the
>>size of the book together with the program
>>because finding how much memory the program use
>>is easy.
>>
>>I think that books are not very important and
>>when you have many initial positions wasting time
>>about building books is not going to give much
>
>maybe you are right, maybe you are not right. who knows ....
>
>
>>unless the time control is blitz.
>
>why unless the time control is blitz ?!?!?

because in that case a book may be more productive to save time on the clock and
at longer time control a book may be counter productive because
the engine may find better moves by itself.

Uri



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