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Subject: Re: Ply level vs Rating

Author: Tom Kerrigan

Date: 04:53:51 08/14/98

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Sounds logical, but I recall a graph in "Chess Skill in Man and Machine" (one of
the few interesting/useful things in the book...) that showed 1 ply = 200 rating
points, up through Deep Thought.

Of course, using this rule of thumb to compare two programs in the same "era" is
fairly pointless, but I think that over long periods of time, the rule of thumb
may still hold true.

-Tom

On August 13, 1998 at 18:24:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 13, 1998 at 17:59:03, Jeff Anderson wrote:
>
>>I do not think that today a graph like that would be relevant.  Some programs
>>sacrafice plies for a much more thorough evaluation.  Other programs sacrafice a
>> thorough evaluation for speed.  If you had a chart like this, a program that
>>searched slow would but evaluated well would do very well on a chart like that,
>>while a fast program that didn't have as complex evaluation would do poor.  But
>>if you actually had a match between these two programs they two extremes would
>>probably even out.
>>
>
>
>two often-used measures, NPS and depth, are really only good for comparing
>A to A, ie the same program at a faster NPS or deeper depth.  I believe that
>programs play better as they go faster, if the speed is gotten by either
>faster hardware or more efficient programming, rather than stripping something
>out or taking a "shortcut."
>
>I'd suspect that *everybody* agrees, because if you notice at every event where
>a computer plays another computer or a strong human, the computer operator makes
>every possible effort to get the fastest machine possible.
>
>But you can't compare NPS between two different programs and conclude anything
>about their "strength" based only on NPS.  Ditto for "depth" because everyone
>has a different "meaning" for depth=10 plies, for example...
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>On August 13, 1998 at 06:12:37, Leon Stancliff wrote:
>>
>>>  Can anyone tell me?
>>>
>>>  A few years ago I saw a graph of ply level in the middle game versus
>>>anticipated rating. Has anyone attempted to do this same thing recently? We have
>>>estimates of the approximate rating increase per ply, and approximate rating
>>>increase with doubling of speed.
>>>
>>>  Obviously selectivity, opening book and hashtables make a difference. But I
>>>feel certain someone has investigated the question I have proposed. What ply
>>>level was DeepBlue reaching in the Kasparov match? What ply level was Rebel 10
>>>reaching in the longer games of the Anand match?
>>>
>>>Leon Stancliff



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