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Subject: Re: A Possible Experiment to test Dr Hyatts 100X factor

Author: Matthew Hull

Date: 16:18:20 09/06/02

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On September 06, 2002 at 18:04:29, Uri Blass wrote:

>On September 06, 2002 at 18:01:11, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 06, 2002 at 17:32:47, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>
>>>On September 06, 2002 at 16:13:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 06, 2002 at 16:04:58, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>From the Threads here I am assuming that professor Hyatt beleives that 100X
>>>>>factor in speed (NPS) would be too much to overcome with software improvement
>>>>>factor.I am proposing the following possible match:Time control 40/2 6
>>>>>games : GNU chess 5.04 on a pentium 4 at 2.4 Gigahertz vs Chessmaster2 original
>>>>>playstation (33 Mhz).This is actually a 73 factor in terms of processor speed
>>>>>which is not 100 but close.On the original playstation Chessmaster2 gets about
>>>>>1100 Nps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Why gnuchess?  I don't know much about it, and it might be perfectly ok.
>>>>
>>>>But you are also misinterpreting what I said.  I did say that a factor of
>>>>100x, between programs that are "close" is overwhelming.  Obviously a bad
>>>>program at 100X will be better, but it might not be much better.
>>>>
>>>>In any case, give your test a go and see what happens first...
>>>
>>>I'm running a test now with gnuchess (900mhz Duron) versus Crafty18.15 (90mhz
>>>Pentium).  Gnuchess runs 16x faster on the Duron than the P90.  At 40/30min
>>>minutes and after 36 games, gnuchess is 52% against crafty (not too impressive
>>>for gnuchess).  The lower the time control, the better gnuchess does, of course.
>>> I have lots more data at home on this test, as well as an equal hardware test.
>>>I'm trying to get at least 40 games in each category, including 40/120.
>>>
>>>Not sure if the test will prove useful, but I'm thinking that one can do this
>>>experiment with any two engines and derive a function with which to calculate
>>>the speed advantage needed to reach parity/superiority by the weaker engine,
>>>qualitative factors aside.
>>
>>Thanks for your tests.
>>
>>I am interested to know how much games gnuchess lost on time because based on my
>>experience gnuchess lose minority of it's games on time at x minute/y moves.
>>
>>It may be more interesting to use fisher time control because I believe that gnu
>>chess does not lose on time at fisher time control.
>>
>>I still expect gnu chess to lose at slow time control inspite of the hardware
>>advantage even at fisher time control like 150 minute per game+25 second per
>>move but it is only a guess.
>>
>>I suggest that you use 6+1,30+5,150+25 as your 3 categories of time control.
>>
>>Uri
>
>Note that my experience is based only on games with no pondering and it is
>possible that things are different with pondering(I do not know).
>
>Uri


Pondering does not help the time problem.

Also, weaker chess programs will perform better at shorter time controls, and
worse at slow time controls.:-)

Gnuchess results so far with a 16x speed advantage over Crafty on p90:

40/5     71%
40/10    53%
40/30    50%

Of course, if Crafty were on the 900mhz and gnuchess were given a 16x time
advantage, the numbers would be lower.  The speed advantage buys you less at the
greater depths I think.  I will do that test as well perhaps.

Regards,



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