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Subject: Re: A Good Test Position

Author: blass uri

Date: 07:54:04 08/21/98

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On August 21, 1998 at 10:33:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 21, 1998 at 09:56:10, blass uri wrote:
>
>>
>>On August 21, 1998 at 08:59:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On August 21, 1998 at 07:58:21, Robert Henry Durrett wrote:
>>>
>>>>There have been quite a few threads this month dealing with test positions which
>>>>test verious aspects of the software.
>>>>
>>>>But there is one question about the software which nobody seems to want to
>>>>mention:  Why do the chess engines have trouble with the initial position where
>>>>no pieces have been moved yet?  [Position at the start of all chess games]
>>>>
>>>>If the programs can be "tweaked" so that they play good openings, then all of
>>>>the opening books will become unnecessary!
>>>>
>>>>Why not work on the "initial position" and get the programs to find the best
>>>>move for that position?
>>>
>>>The primary reason this fails is you will get killed doing it.  As a test,
>>>try Crafty with either book=off, or book random 0, which means it will play
>>>the exact same opening moves if you don't vary the time control.  If you lose,
>>>you can pick *any* move of yours you made, and replay the game to that point
>>>and vary, knowing the program will walk down the same line again, since they
>>>are "deterministic".  You will eventually find a move that wins, and then it
>>>is all over when word gets out, because everyone will play that move.
>>You can use some learning and this is impossible to win by the same game.
>>
>>for example after a game you lost you can have a bad opinion against the moves
>>you played(a panelty of 0.1 pawn against these moves is enough to change the
>>first move and you cannot repeat the same game).
>>another idea is to use singular extensions to the moves in the games that you
>>lost.
>>It is interesting to check what is the value of the opening book in ELO in the
>>ICC if you use learning so you do not lose the same game twice.
>>
>
>against *what* move?  If a program doesn't have a book, and plays totally
>on its own, as suggested above, then *what* move do you assume is bad
>when your opponent plays the same first move again?  Do you assume your
>first move was the loser?  The second?  the 50th?

I do not know so I decide to have an opinion against all the moves I played
and I substract 0.1 pawn from the evaluation of the moves I played in the game I
lost
It can change the first move from 1.e4 to 1.d4 but not to 1.a4 and after some
games I lose with white I play 1.e4 again because even with the -0.1 pawn
it is better than alternatives without  -0.1 pawns
If the opponent play the same then I change the first move it is reasonable to
change.

Uri





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