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Subject: Re: Another thing..

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 09:39:05 09/28/02

Go up one level in this thread


On September 28, 2002 at 04:28:02, Aaron Gordon wrote:

>On September 27, 2002 at 23:42:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>I didn't run the SMP tests for AMD, I don't have a one here and have no plans
>>to get one.  I posted a chart of data others provided.  I don't even remember
>>which position we used now.  All that was significant was that all the speedup
>>numbers (raw nps, not parallel search times) were in the 1.4-1.5 range with
>>AMD, and 1.8 and above for the intel boxes...
>>
>>I personally believe it highlights a memory bottleneck...
>
>I don't think it's fair for you to find the slowest possible binary for the AMD
>and some IntelC5 binary and then claim that the speedup is slow. I don't think
>it's fair either if someone takes a slow binary for a P4 and compares it to a
>fast binary for an AMD cpu.

I'm not doing that.  But you are missing the point as we are not comparing
speeds between AMD and Intel.  I run _any_ executable on AMD using one
cpu, then the same using two, and compute the NPS speedup.  I do the same for
Intel.  It won't matter whether the executable is fast or slow, as I am not
comparing nps between intel and AMD.  I am comparing the NPS speedup from 1-2
cpus on AMD against the NPS speedup from 1-2 cpus in Intel...

Fast or low executables won't make any difference in the _ratio_ I was looking
at.  Slow executable on AMD will still see a proportional speedup.  Because the
raw NPS is not important, the ration of 1 cpu to 2 cpus is all that counts
here..  And AMD has problems...  Not major problems, but problems nontheless...




>
>You seem to conveniently forget the benchmarks I've done and other people here
>have done. Take a look at my latest graph of crafty results:
>http://speedycpu.dyndns.org/crafty/craftybench4.jpg
>Note: the P4 2.76GHz is an overclocked 1.8A northwood at 153.5fsb(614MHz RDRAM).

I'm not forgetting _anything_.  Benchmark nps does not matter whatsoever to
_this_ discussion.  It is _only_ the ratio of 2 cpu time to 1 cpu time for
each specific processor.  It shows that it is harder to run two cpus wide open
on AMD than it is on Intel.


>
>Now, the SMP binaries I have are able to produce a 1.7x speedup in the
>benchmark. You claim the P4's get 1.8x, thats fine. Take the P4-2.76's result
>(1,120,011 nps) and multiply it by 1.8. You get 2,016,019.8 nps. Not too shabby,
>right? Well.. take the 1.86Ghz XP and multiply it's nps by 1.7 and you get
>2,035,330.1. Still faster. Now, if you're saying, "Well yadda yadda is
>overclocked and etc etc". Yeah, and even faster things will be released here
>shortly. I can guarantee the P4-2.76 w/ 614MHz RDRAM would be as fast or a hair
>faster than a standard P4-2.8. The AthlonXP at 1.86 would be more around a 2300+
>if such a thing existed.


Again, you are missing the point.  I didn't say AMD was _slower_ than Intel
anywhere.  I simply said their two cpu machine does _not_ scale as well as
the Intel duals.  Nothing more, nothing less.  That remains an easy to prove
fact...



>
>Moving on to the future.. P4-3GHz will soon be released as well as the 2800+
>(being announced on October 1st). Lets do some rough guessing. If a P4 gets
>1,120,011 nps @ 2.76 it should get about 1,217,403 nps at 3GHz and thats
>probably still having the RDRAM clocked to insanity. Take the 2.52GHz AthlonXP @
>1,578,197. At 2133MHz (AthlonXP 2600+) it should do about 1,335,831 nps. Again
>do 1,335,831 * 1.7 and 1,217,403 * 1.8 and you get:
>2,270,912.7 nps for the dual XP 2600+ (2.13ghz)
>2,191,325.4 nps for the dual P4-3GHz.

Maybe or maybe not.  But it _still_ doesn't change the fact that the dual AMD
is less efficient (should optimally be 2x faster than a single) than a dual
]intel...



>
>Since Crafty is pretty linear you know these numbers are very close to the
>actual results. So far from what I've seen Pentium4's need an entire GHz more
>and twice the L2 cache just to come close. This is what I call a $500 keychain.



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