Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: The Tweakers & Twisters in CC please do come back to chess (Appeal 2

Author: Matthew Hull

Date: 10:41:47 10/11/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 11, 2002 at 13:20:22, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On October 11, 2002 at 13:04:02, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 11, 2002 at 12:36:19, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>
>>>On October 11, 2002 at 09:05:31, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>>
>>>>It's no different than human world champion contenders analysing with the aid of
>>>>their human or computer helpers to adjust play between games in a match.
>>>>
>>>>Program tweaking during a match does not make the program stronger, it just
>>>>adjusts it's play to the particular opponent, JUST LIKE HUMANS DO.
>>>>
>>>>I think your argument is not logical.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You think? Let's see.
>>>
>>>HUMAN PLAYER: Known for years, then decades, playing style and strong and weak
>>>points well known, impossible to play like someone else, opening choice in a
>>>certain realm, surprises possible, but then with pro and con aspects (perhaps
>>>more aspects)
>>>
>>>MACHINE PLAYER: always new versions, theoretically with always new style, so
>>>that no tendence could be seen and exploited, that would be no problem IF it was
>>>for more than 5 or 8 games only, the general limiation by the overall depth can
>>>be exploited, but only after some training, the same for the huge opening books
>>>for an absolutely new player, so without training and allowance to tweak and
>>>twist the complete personality, always with the same high-class GM books, that
>>>is nonsense in the end to play little show matches with only few games
>>>
>>>And you want to insinuate that humans play on that same base their chess? You
>>>bet!
>>>
>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>
>>
>>You are falling into a deep abyss now.  Because you want to make humans and
>>computers
>>"equivalent" and that is simply impossible, particularly when we know so little
>>about the
>>"human chess player and how he does what he does."
>>
>>Much of the "fairness" has to come by analogy, because the two players (man and
>>machine)
>>have so very little in common.  In fact, all they do have in common is the
>>ability to move chess
>>pieces around on a board according to proscribed rules...  Arguing about opening
>>books, endgame
>>tables, adjustments during the game, are all things that simply have no common
>>ground in the
>>two players...
>
>(Bob, do something against the ugly picture of your postings!!! thxs)


I hope you meant to say, "Bob, fix that funky word wrap thing that's going on in
your posts".


>
>You are right!!  But what is the consequence? To leave it to the programmers to
>exploit the chaos they have to take all the responsibility for? Who had the time
>since the beginning 60s for sound definitions? NB we are talking about comp vs
>human. In comp comp you can continue to do whatever you want.
>
>Rolf Tueschen



This page took 0.01 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.