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Subject: Re: The Tweakers & Twisters in CC please do come back to chess (Appeal 2

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 11:48:05 10/11/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 11, 2002 at 13:41:47, Matthew Hull wrote:

>On October 11, 2002 at 13:20:22, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>On October 11, 2002 at 13:04:02, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On October 11, 2002 at 12:36:19, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 11, 2002 at 09:05:31, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>It's no different than human world champion contenders analysing with the aid of
>>>>>their human or computer helpers to adjust play between games in a match.
>>>>>
>>>>>Program tweaking during a match does not make the program stronger, it just
>>>>>adjusts it's play to the particular opponent, JUST LIKE HUMANS DO.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think your argument is not logical.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You think? Let's see.
>>>>
>>>>HUMAN PLAYER: Known for years, then decades, playing style and strong and weak
>>>>points well known, impossible to play like someone else, opening choice in a
>>>>certain realm, surprises possible, but then with pro and con aspects (perhaps
>>>>more aspects)
>>>>
>>>>MACHINE PLAYER: always new versions, theoretically with always new style, so
>>>>that no tendence could be seen and exploited, that would be no problem IF it was
>>>>for more than 5 or 8 games only, the general limiation by the overall depth can
>>>>be exploited, but only after some training, the same for the huge opening books
>>>>for an absolutely new player, so without training and allowance to tweak and
>>>>twist the complete personality, always with the same high-class GM books, that
>>>>is nonsense in the end to play little show matches with only few games
>>>>
>>>>And you want to insinuate that humans play on that same base their chess? You
>>>>bet!
>>>>
>>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>>
>>>
>>>You are falling into a deep abyss now.  Because you want to make humans and
>>>computers
>>>"equivalent" and that is simply impossible, particularly when we know so little
>>>about the
>>>"human chess player and how he does what he does."
>>>
>>>Much of the "fairness" has to come by analogy, because the two players (man and
>>>machine)
>>>have so very little in common.  In fact, all they do have in common is the
>>>ability to move chess
>>>pieces around on a board according to proscribed rules...  Arguing about opening
>>>books, endgame
>>>tables, adjustments during the game, are all things that simply have no common
>>>ground in the
>>>two players...
>>
>>(Bob, do something against the ugly picture of your postings!!! thxs)
>
>
>I hope you meant to say, "Bob, fix that funky word wrap thing that's going on in
>your posts".

Yes. Please do not explain the obvious. We have readers of the Yellow Press too.
:)

>
>
>>
>>You are right!!  But what is the consequence? To leave it to the programmers to
>>exploit the chaos they have to take all the responsibility for? Who had the time
>>since the beginning 60s for sound definitions? NB we are talking about comp vs
>>human. In comp comp you can continue to do whatever you want.
>>
>>Rolf Tueschen



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