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Subject: Re: its possible to make 1 billion nodes/sec chip 2day- Hsu

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 14:46:15 10/17/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 17, 2002 at 15:31:54, Uri Blass wrote:

>On October 17, 2002 at 15:01:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 17, 2002 at 14:23:19, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On October 17, 2002 at 11:58:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 17, 2002 at 11:17:43, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 17, 2002 at 10:23:59, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 17, 2002 at 03:34:44, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On October 16, 2002 at 18:52:08, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You are simply relying on _one_ game.  What about 10 years of total domination
>>>>>>>>in computer chess?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>10 years of domination ending 7 years ago means absolutely nothing now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>GCP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Only to those that don't "think".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>They dominated for ten years with hardware 100X slower than what they unveiled
>>>>>>in 1997.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you take any reasonable program of today and make it 100x faster, do you not
>>>>>>think it will
>>>>>>totally dominate the other programs???
>>>>>
>>>>>If I take Fritz3(p90) and give it hardware that is 100 times faster then I
>>>>>expect it to be weaker than Fritz7 of today inspite of a small hardware
>>>>>advantage.
>>>>>
>>>>>The progress that was made in hardware+software from 1995 is more than being 100
>>>>>times faster except fast time control.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>If you put fritz3 on hardware 100 times _faster_ than fritz 7, I'll take fritz3
>>>>in a match.
>>>>
>>>>This is _easy_ to test...  Start off 10x faster to see how bad 100x is going to
>>>>end up.  10x
>>>>will be murder
>>>
>>>I say 100 times faster than p90(the hardware that Fritz3 used to beat deep blue
>>>prototype)
>>>
>>>If you put Fritz3 on 9000Mhz against Fritz7 on 2000Mhz when Fritz7 has bigger
>>>hash tables I expect Fritz7 to win at least at long time control.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>That isn't the point.  Thru 1994 deep thought dominated everybody, easily.  In
>>1995 they
>>lost one game to fritz.  In 1997 deep thought suddenly became 100x faster and a
>>lot "smarter"
>>with the new DB2 chips.
>
>This is what Hsu claims but we have no evidence that it is the case.
>First he had to admit that the 200M nodes that IBM claimed in the matches were
>wrong and there were only 126M nodes so it is less than 100 times faster than 2M
>nodes per second of Deep blue prototype and it make me suspect that there were
>more lies.

I don't suspect _any_ lies.  I suspect different numbers based on different
qualifications
of how they were arrived at.  IE we _know_ they can't "count" nodes.  The
hardware doesn't
do that.  I hope we get a chance to ask him about his actual NPS, his actual
parallel search
efficiency compared to a single processor / single chess processor test, etc...


>
>Vincent claims that the effective number of nodes was smaller than 126M nodes
>and 126M was not the number of nodes.

Vincent claims his program is the best in the world, either tactically or
positionally.
Do you believe that?

I don't.


>
>I do not claim to know.
>
>About being smarter I am also not sure about it.
>No doubt that deeper blue had more evaluation then deep blue prototype but
>the evaluation was not tested enough and there were bugs.

Based on what?  That is a declaration, rather than opinion.  Which means you
must
have some actual facts to base that on???


>
>Uri



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