Author: Bob Durrett
Date: 17:00:09 10/20/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 20, 2002 at 19:38:48, Uri Blass wrote:
>On October 20, 2002 at 19:12:39, Bob Durrett wrote:
>
>>On October 20, 2002 at 18:33:25, José Carlos wrote:
>>
>>>On October 20, 2002 at 18:16:38, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 20, 2002 at 17:55:55, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Why Fritz and Junior not among Top computers at ICC?
>>>>>
>>>>>I just looked at "best computers" at the Internet Chess Club [ICC] and noted
>>>>>that the top blitz programs are NOT Fritz and Junior.
>>>>>
>>>>>{{Note: at ICC, "best" is a command.}}
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Why is that? Maybe Kramnik was playing against the wrong engine?
>>>>>
>>>>>Bob D.
>>>>
>>>>ICC rating is a joke.
>>>>
>>>>People can maximize their rating by having a list of
>>>>players that they do not to play.
>>>>
>>>>I think that it is better to ignore that rating because
>>>>it has no meaning.
>>>>
>>>>Rating should be based on tournament when players have
>>>>no right not to play against special opponents.
>>>>
>>>>Players who choose not to play against special
>>>>opponents should get no rating.
>>>>
>>>>Another point is that the time control for blitz is not
>>>>constant time control and it can be 3 0 or 12 2.
>>>>
>>>>I think that all games should be played at
>>>>the same time control to have rating with meaning.
>>>
>>> ICC rating is not totally meaningless. It depends on what you want to know. I
>>>mean, if I usually play the same time controls and a variety of opponents, I can
>>>test my program with two different books and see which one works better. In that
>>>case, ICC rating is useful _to me_.
>>> But I agree is doesn't always show which player is stronger because of the
>>>reasons you mentioned.
>>>
>>> José C.
>>
>>OK, so some manipulation is possible. People who used Fritz or Junior could do
>>the same thing!
>>
>>What strikes me is that Fritz and Junior seem to be missing entirely!
>>
>>Do you suppose somebody has talked the ICC management into boycotting Fritz and
>>Junior?
>>
>>Joke or not, I think it's very strange that Fritz and Junior cannot compete in
>>that arena. They could play by the same rules as the others, too!
>>
>>Bob D.
>
>They could do it but what is the reason to do it.
>
>Why should I use a program that is not mine
>to compete in ICC?
>
>I see no reason to do it.
>
>I also think that it is better not to learn
>from blitz games about the best program to play
>against kramnik at 120/40 that is a different time
>control.
>
>I believe that a big anti simmetric evaluation that
>is used by crafty may be a big advantage at blitz but
>a disadvantage at 120/40(even standard time control
>is not 120/40).
>
>The point is that at long time control playing
>relatively weaker moves only to keep the position open
>may be punished by humans and programs that try to play
>also closed positions may do better.
>
>Uri
You make a good point there. The program(s) best against humans at Blitz may
not be the same programs which are best at different time controls. That makes
sense to me.
The problem I have with ICC "standard" time limits is that the humans would have
time to help the computers. If the computer played Bf8, for example, the human
might intervene and force the computer to chose the next best move. This
assumes a bit, I realize. The human might have to be a GM. Nevertheless, this
could be done regardless of the choice of the chess engine.
To be fair, it is noteworthy that the top computer at ICC at "standard" time
limit is Deep Fritz 7 on a dual processor computer.
Yes, Fritz is doing well at "standard" time limits at ICC.
Maybe we can disregard Blitz entirely.
Bob D.
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