Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 17:33:36 10/23/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 23, 2002 at 15:30:58, Marc van Hal wrote: >On October 23, 2002 at 11:14:47, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On October 23, 2002 at 08:09:30, Otello Gnaramori wrote: >> >>>On October 22, 2002 at 17:32:52, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>> >>>>I doubt Fritz saw more. It was just lucky that the sacrifice didn't work. >>> >>>I was convinced that in this game the "lucky factor" don't exist... >>> >>>w.b.r. >>>Otello >> >> >>I don't know what you mean, exactly. >> >>My point was this: >> >>If Nxf7 works, deep fritz had absolutely no idea that it did, because it >>couldn't see the >>consequences of the move. >> >>if Nxf7 doesn't work, the same statement is still true. >> >>So the issue becomes one of luck. Kramnik played the move. Fritz had no idea >>whether >>it was good or not. Luckily for Fritz, it turned out to be bad. >> >>A different position. Fritz (or any program) could have been playing against >>Shirov a >>few years ago where he made his famous bishop sacrifice in an endgame. The >>programs >>all think the sacrifice is unsound. They are all wrong. So in that case, since >>they blundered >>into a position where a sound sacrifice worked, but they had no idea about the >>sac, they >>were unlucky. In the Kramnik game, Fritz blundered into a position where the >>sacrifice >>was played and it was lucky that it was unsound. >> >>that was the idea... >> >>Luck is _always_ a part of the game... > >Steinitz and Dr Lasker strongly would disagree with you >(Acording to them nothing was as bad as a bad sacrefice.) >Though Tal and Shirov would agree a litle. >You also have the bad knight sacrefice from Fischer against Donner. >Then you have to be carefull because when Donner asked why he made this >sacrefice. >Fischer said because I despise you. >Maybe this was what Kramnik ment and only didn't say it because he knew Fritz >wouldn't understand it ouch. >Still I think the horizon problem is a computer problem and not a human problem. >Marc There are two kinds of "horizon" problems. In one, you simply don't see deeply enough, and so you enter into a line that gets you killed. In the other, you play delaying moves untkil you get tired of doing so, and then you stop analyzing down that path. This is how the infamous "horizon effect" hurts programs still today... The latter is really not a human issue at all. But the first one is...
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