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Subject: Re: Just comparing lists...

Author: Andreas Guettinger

Date: 07:23:59 10/25/02

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On October 25, 2002 at 08:59:55, Uri Blass wrote:

>On October 25, 2002 at 08:43:12, Andreas Guettinger wrote:
>
>>On October 25, 2002 at 08:25:48, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On October 25, 2002 at 08:04:37, Andreas Guettinger wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 07:49:17, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 07:43:52, Andreas Guettinger wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 07:12:38, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 06:51:45, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 06:29:07, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>>>No
>>>>>>>>>I did not think only about crafty.
>>>>>>>>>There were other cases when programmers released versions with no improvement or
>>>>>>>>>at least it is not clear if there was an improvement:
>>>>>>>>>Gandalf,Nimzo,Mchess,Genius
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Based on eng-eng matches I guess.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>-S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think that most people care only about them.
>>>>>>>I do not care about games against humans because it is clearly only a question
>>>>>>>of time until computers beat humans at all time controls.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>comp-comp is the interesting struggle and being better in comp-comp can also
>>>>>>>help to get better results against humans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Computer also can play for the same ideas that humans play so being better at
>>>>>>>beating them means in most cases also being better against humans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There are programs that can play for king attack and I do not think that you
>>>>>>>need humans to see the problems of your program against king attack if you have
>>>>>>>these problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You can let your program play against sjeng.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I disagree. Better performance in eng-eng matches is no guarantee that a
>>>>>>programm performs better in matches against humans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And it leads the whole computer chess development into the false direction,
>>>>>>with no new concepts.
>>>>>
>>>>>I see no reason why not.
>>>>>New concepts can be productive to beat chess programs.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>Look at the Kramnik-Fritz match games 2 and 3. In tactical positions, with lots
>>>>of pieces and queens, chess engines are not bad today (and this is indeed an
>>>>achievement of eng-eng matches). But in the other positions, the engines have
>>>>not a clue, are chanceless, and this will not improve from eng-eng matches,
>>>>because all the engines have this flaw.
>>>
>>>I do not think that all of them.
>>>There are engines that do not play a3 in game 3.
>>>
>>>Other engines have different holes in their knowledge so I do not think that
>>>Fritz has less knowledge than them.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>I do. Fritz = fast, not much knowledge. Hiarcs8 = slooow, a lot of knowledge.
>>
>>Unfortunately, I don't own Fritz, so I can not prove that. But I think it's
>>obvious, and nothing anybody will say will change my mind. :)
>>
>>Andreas
>
>
>My private version of movei is a slow searcher relative to Fritz and it is at
>similiar speed to hiarcs(the public free version is also a slow searcher but
>about 1.5 times faster in nodes per seconds than my private version).
>
>I can tell you that
>Movei of today has no knowledge about king safety or about passed pawns and
>weak pawns but if you use your logic you are not going to believe me because you
>are going to say that movei is slower than Fritz so it must have a lot of
>knowledge.
>
>Uri

Well, but Hiarcs8 plays as good chess as Fritz (source ICC-rating), and is a
slow searcher compared to Fritz. Can you say that about Movei?

:-)

Andreas



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