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Subject: Re: Just comparing lists...

Author: Sune Fischer

Date: 11:53:39 10/25/02

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On October 25, 2002 at 13:19:39, Aaron Tay wrote:

>On October 25, 2002 at 12:25:27, Sune Fischer wrote:
>
>>On October 25, 2002 at 12:04:50, Aaron Tay wrote:
>>
>>>On October 25, 2002 at 12:00:57, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>
>
>>>>>SSDF did not test Fritz7.0.0.1,Fritz7.0.0.2 and Fritz7.0.0.8 as different
>>>>>programs
>>>>
>>>>How strange.
>>>
>>>Hate to point out the obvious . But Given that customers pay seperately to get
>>>Fritz 6, 7, DF 7 whatever, surely, it makes sense to test those seperately so
>>>customers can decide whether to upgrade?
>>
>>But they don't pay seperately for CT and GT :)
>>
>>>Not sure how you handle cases like Crafty which are free though.
>>>Also the case of Chess Tiger 14/GT 2. Otherwise Chessmaster (if tested) could
>>>have a dozen entries , one for each personality.
>>
>>Yeah, that is my point :)
>
>I suppose the thinking at the time was that they play very differently, and
>deserves  to see if one was clearly stronger than the other. If i recall, the
>author couldn't decide..
>
>
>Still it seems to me in this case SSDF helped the author do his testing for him
>when deciding between 2 "personalities" :) .
>
>
>I also took a look again. I see Gandalf 5.0 and 5.1 listed seperately.
>Does anyone know the policy that governs whether SSDF lists a seperate entry or
>combines them into 1?
>
>>I think the "real" SSDF list should be a one author - one entry list, the main
>>reason for that is that the SSDF is considered an author ranking list (IMO
>>anyway) and you shouldn't be able to push down your competeters by simply
>>releasing new versions.
>>
>>Crafty for instance has been pushed way down to 21st, quite confusing I think.
>
>Acutally I'm not certain what your concern is. Most people are bright enough to
>realise that programs with the same name Fritz or Tiger are by the same author.

I hope so :)
My concern is that it is in principle possible to flood such a list with the
same program. That makes the list boring and confusing at the same time.

I understanding was that the SSDF should be the computer version of the FIDE
ranking list. We don't have 5 Kasparovs on that list, so we shouldn't have 5
Frans Morsch's on this one either :)

Ok, so the SSDF is _not_ an equivalent, but it should and could be! ;)
IMO they should spend their time testing more engines instead of many versions
of the same engine, but that _is_ just my opinion :)

>Additional confusion I think is that you have the same program tested on 2
>different hardware. I see two Fritz 7s for example. Add the multiple versions
>and personalities , 5-8 authors can take the top 30 places..
>
>
>>However, I think they should keep a link to a version of the list as it is now,
>>since that list has some other valuable information.
>
>Well it's just presentation. More information is better than less.

Not when the "relevant" information becomes a needle in a haystack ;)

>>-S.

>On October 25, 2002 at 12:25:27, Sune Fischer wrote:
>
>>On October 25, 2002 at 12:04:50, Aaron Tay wrote:
>>
>>>On October 25, 2002 at 12:00:57, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>
>
>>>>>SSDF did not test Fritz7.0.0.1,Fritz7.0.0.2 and Fritz7.0.0.8 as different
>>>>>programs
>>>>
>>>>How strange.
>>>
>>>Hate to point out the obvious . But Given that customers pay seperately to get
>>>Fritz 6, 7, DF 7 whatever, surely, it makes sense to test those seperately so
>>>customers can decide whether to upgrade?
>>
>>But they don't pay seperately for CT and GT :)
>>
>>>Not sure how you handle cases like Crafty which are free though.
>>>Also the case of Chess Tiger 14/GT 2. Otherwise Chessmaster (if tested) could
>>>have a dozen entries , one for each personality.
>>
>>Yeah, that is my point :)
>
>I suppose the thinking at the time was that they play very differently, and
>deserves  to see if one was clearly stronger than the other. If i recall, the
>author couldn't decide..
>
>
>Still it seems to me in this case SSDF helped the author do his testing for him
>when deciding between 2 "personalities" :) .
>
>
>I also took a look again. I see Gandalf 5.0 and 5.1 listed seperately.
>Does anyone know the policy that governs whether SSDF lists a seperate entry or
>combines them into 1?
>
>>I think the "real" SSDF list should be a one author - one entry list, the main
>>reason for that is that the SSDF is considered an author ranking list (IMO
>>anyway) and you shouldn't be able to push down your competeters by simply
>>releasing new versions.
>>
>>Crafty for instance has been pushed way down to 21st, quite confusing I think.
>
>Acutally I'm not certain what your concern is. Most people are bright enough to
>realise that programs with the same name Fritz or Tiger are by the same author.
>
>Additional confusion I think is that you have the same program tested on 2
>different hardware. I see two Fritz 7s for example. Add the multiple versions
>and personalities , 5-8 authors can take the top 30 places..
>
>
>>However, I think they should keep a link to a version of the list as it is now,
>>since that list has some other valuable information.
>
>Well it's just presentation. More information is better than less.
>
>>-S.
>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>-S.



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