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Subject: Re: Pondering ("think on opponent's time")

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:44:55 11/11/02

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On November 11, 2002 at 10:42:41, Bob Durrett wrote:

>On November 11, 2002 at 10:24:26, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 11, 2002 at 08:21:01, Andreas Guettinger wrote:
>>
>>>I would think that engine moves are easier to predict than human moves. I don't
>>>have the statistics to support this, it is simply based on experience following
>>>engine-human matches.
>>>
>>>So what may be a good strategy for one must not be so for the other. Predict
>>>engine moves in 1/2 of all the cases might be possible, but for humans moves I
>>>would suspect that it is less than 1/4 of all the cases. So possibly:
>>>
>>
>>
>>Depends.  In games vs GM players, Crafty averages predicting correctly 70-80%
>>of the time.  In games vs computers, this might drop to 60-70 for whatever
>>reasons.  But it is generally > 50% for all cases until you start throwing in
>>very weak opponents, as it drops to almost nothing in those cases, for obvious
>>reasons.  :)
>
>What's that?  : )
>
>Amateur chess is better than GM chess because there are more surprises.
>
>Bob D.

Yes.  And more blunders too.  :)



>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Strategy A) in engine tournaments.
>>>
>>>Strategy B) in human tournaments.
>>>
>>>Andreas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On November 10, 2002 at 21:29:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 10, 2002 at 21:15:07, Jim Bumgardner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Which of these strategies for "think on opponent's time" makes more sense?
>>>>>
>>>>>A) To only search the top-move from the principle variation.  If
>>>>>the opponent makes that move, continue searching, otherwise reset and
>>>>>search again.
>>>>
>>>>This is the _only_ way to do it.  I've explained this many times, but it
>>>>is probably time to go it again...
>>>>
>>>>Suppose you predict your opponent's move correctly only 50% of the time.
>>>>And it should be pointed out that this is a _low_ estimate from thousands
>>>>of observed games (via log files).  This means that 1/2 of the time, you will
>>>>predict correctly and when your opponent moves, you have an instant response
>>>>ready.  1/2 of the time you get to think for free.
>>>>
>>>>Suppose you choose to search the top three moves instead of just the first one.
>>>>When your opponent has moved, you have spent 1/3 of the total time on each move.
>>>>You save 1/3 of the time.  And that is worse than saving 1/2.  If you only
>>>>search the top 2 moves, you will save 1/2 of the time, _if_ the move played is
>>>>one of those two, but occasionally it won't.
>>>>
>>>>It is really simple to see why searching only the best move is the right
>>>>idea.    I could think of a few cases where I might vary this, such as where
>>>>my target time is 3 minutes and my opponent searches for 12 minutes.  Do I
>>>>want to search one move for 12 minutes, or do I want to take a chance and
>>>>use 1/2 of that time (say) to search for an alternative best move?  Tough to
>>>>say, and although I have tried such ideas many times, I have always come back
>>>>to searching what I consider the best move only.  And since 50% is a low
>>>>prediction percentage, searching one move actually is even better than the
>>>>above pessimistic analysis.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>B) To search all possible moves the opponent might make.  When the opponent
>>>>>moves, reset and search again (but faster, since the hash tables have been
>>>>>seeded).
>>>>
>>>>see above why this is not so good...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>C) Some other strategy?  For example, to use A) only if the top move is
>>>>>'singular' (has a significantly better score).
>>>>>
>>>>>What strategy does your chess engine use?  To date, I have been using "A",
>>>>>but I am beginning to think that "B" or "C" might be better.
>>>>>
>>>>>- Jim



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