Author: Dan Newman
Date: 12:11:58 09/17/98
Go up one level in this thread
On September 17, 1998 at 14:21:45, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On September 17, 1998 at 14:03:46, Dan Newman wrote: > >>On September 17, 1998 at 10:10:37, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: >> >>> >>>On September 16, 1998 at 21:20:31, Serge Desmarais wrote: >>> >>>>On September 15, 1998 at 17:19:30, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> [snip] >>>>> >>>>>Hi Bob, >>>>> >>>>>In fact, the laws of chess are very specific about draw offers. >>>>> >>>>>1) It is only allowed to offer a draw when it is your turn to play, not while >>>>>your opponent is thinking (or searching). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>In my 1993 FIDE rule, it says you CAN offer a draw on your opponent's time, but >>>>if he complains about that to the arbiter, you would get reprimmended. If your >>>>opponent accept the draw offer, then it has no consequences. I did not >>>>check/know if the FIDE changed this rule? >>>> >>>> >>>>Serge Desmarais >>>> >>>> >>>>[snip] >>>> >>> >>>Hi Serge, >>> >>>My understanding is that you are not allowed to do this, although it is not >>>considered too heinous a misdemeanour. That is why you get a reprimand from the >>>arbiter. If you persist in offering draws on your opponent's time, the arbiter >>>can be more severe. In fact, if you should offer a draw before moving, your >>>opponent has the right to insist on seeing your move before deciding whether or >>>not to accept your draw offer. The only correct time to offer the draw is after >>>making your move and before pressing your clock. Having made the offer, you >>>press your clock and your opponent decides in his time whether or not to accept >>>it. >>> >>>If we are going into detail, the recent changes to the laws introduced a new >>>requirement that draw offers must also be recorded in the game score kept by the >>>players (by an = after the move). >>> >>>Best wishes, >>>Roberto >> >>I wonder how this can be handled properly in this autoplayer protocol? >>Currently with xboard, if an engine sends a move, xboard immediately >>hits the clocks and sends the move to the other side, so we can't now >>properly send a draw offer... On the other hand we can send a draw >>offer followed by a move. I suppose the draw offer is sent to the >>opponent first and then the move. I wonder how many engines take that >>move into account before accepting or declining the draw? Perhaps the >>"draw" command could have an attached move: draw Nf7+. >> >>-Dan. > >I bend the rules here. You are supposed to make a move, offer a draw, and hit >the clock. I do all *three* simultaneously... because I send a move, then I >send "draw?" and hit the clock, and all three occur within microseconds of each >other so that they are effectively done at the same instant. We could add a >"press clock" command but that seems stupid. But it would fix the protocol as >follows: > >move Nf7+ >draw >press clock > >In this protocol, I don't think it matters. Programs won't (I hope, and this >could be an issue maybe) spew out a zillion "draw" offers while the other side >is thinking. That *could* affect the other program obviously. ICC solves this >for us, but the protocol wouldn't unless we address it. We could disallow draw >offers without intervening "move xxx" commands to avoid any possible abuse? I agree about "press clock"; it would be there to solve only this one problem and yet would be required after every move... Perhaps the interfaces could be written to suppress multiple draw offers--so the hurt would only be on the machine of the abuser. (This assumes all interface programmers are pure of heart and mind of course.) -Dan.
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