Author: Uri Blass
Date: 04:12:09 12/08/02
Go up one level in this thread
On December 08, 2002 at 06:20:14, Anatoli wrote: >On December 06, 2002 at 17:54:15, Stephen Ham wrote: > >>On December 06, 2002 at 16:24:53, Anatoli Sirota wrote: >> >>>On December 06, 2002 at 12:56:18, Stephen Ham wrote: >>> >>>>. For example, I don't use >>>>any chess engines to analyse during my games; I find my own moves. However, I >>>>use Nimzo 7.32 to blunder check to ensure I'm not hanging material >>>>(unknowingly!) before posting the move. After the game, I use Nimzo 7.32 or >>>>sometimes Fritz to help me wade through complex tactical positions (yes, even I >>>>reach a few of those). So I could have voted None, since I find my own moves >>>>during the game. Instead, I voted for Nimzo, since I do use it after my games. >>>>So, in spite of the vagueness of the question, I think the poll is significant >>>>in that nobody voted for None. Still, I'd like to see a new poll where the >>>>question is specific to chess engine use for analytical support DURING the game. >>> >>> >>>Stephen, if you use an engine JUST 'to blunder check', it means you use it to >>>help yourself playing by correspondence. And according to ICCF rules, it is >>>illegal to use any engine during the game, even if you have a good reason. But >>>don't worry, these days everyone from a begginer till the Cor. World Champion >>>uses Fritz or any other program to make his life easier. Just open your fritz >>>and walk together with it along the games of Tony Oim or Timmerman ! But none of >>>the cor. players want to confess it, but no one needs their confession. >>>Correspondence chess steped in the new era when a player MUST use an engine, >>>otherwise he doesn'e have any chances in these new conditions. I played cor. >>>chess for more then 15 years and now I finish my last tournament and quit. Cor. >>>chess is dead as a branch of chess. I read your messages and some other players >>>at J. Kundsen forum. Also I followed your match with Fritz and Nimzo. It is >>>impossible to argue with the visitors of that forum. ALL of THEM use fritz but >>>just tell them that someone else use it too!! They will eat you alive. >>> >>>Regards, >>>Anatoli Sirota >> >>Dear Anatoli, >> >>I'm sorry to read that you've quit CC. The CC world is all the weaker for your >>absence because you are a strong and highly talented player. I'll miss seeing >>your games. >> >>Nonetheless, my friend, you are in error regarding the ICCF rules. It's never >>prohibited computer use. Also, it's never prohibited consulting with other >>players. Their reasoning is that it's pointless to have rules that can't be >>enforced. I don't know if this is sound reasoning, but those are the rules so I >>follow them. Prior to playing in the ICCF, I played in the USCF (U.S. Chess >>Federation) where there IS a prohibition against computer move generation and >>blunder checking and also against outside consultation. I honored those rules >>too and trusted my opponents to do likewise. >> >>Anatoli, I do agree with you you about The Correspondence Chess Message Board. >>People have very strong opinions there and one can get eaten alive. Still, you >>are correct: most of the strongest players insist that a computer is a mandatory >>tool for the highest level of CC. In fact, I don't recall ever reading about any >>top-level player claiming NOT to use a computer. Maybe that's why I've plateaued >>out at about 2500. Still, using a computer removes the fun for me so I won't do >>it. But then, my chess style is more technical than tactical, so it probably >>doesn't affect me very much. >> >>Anatoli, I wish you all the very best in your chess life and hope that you'll >>return to CC some day. >> >>Sincerely, >> >>Stephen > >Stephan, thanks for your reply and that nice joke. I know that the whole >Correspondence World would cry days and nights, when I will quit chess. But this >joke is 100 year old and I would rather expect it from Marius Seretas or Damian, >but not from you. I have read your messages and I highly respected you as one of >a few writers at that CC Forum who still have a common sense. >As for the question, which you had arose here. I thing your first message was >more suitable for that CC Forum rather then for this computer group. You >would’ve found full understanding and support there. As I mentioned before, I >strongly believe that all correspondence players use Fritz/Nimzo/ Hiarcs to >analyze their games. Just a year ago it was very dangerous even to mention the >names of Fritz or Junior, but time changed. ICCF became more flexible and they >even started to advertise CB products at the CC Forum side. But now they found >a very nice expression for that – “blunder check”! So, it sounds that cor. >players do not analyze their positions together with Fritz anymore, but they >only use it afterwards to check their possible blunders ! What a nonsense ! You >even found another excuse – after the blunder check you sleep better! From a >medical point of view, what can be better then a peaceful sleep. You provided >here your way to use your Nimzo, but I don’t believe it. You mention that first >you find a move, and only then then you check it with your chess engine ! It is >amazing! Do you call it as a blunder check? But if your Nimzo shows to you, that >you indeed lose a piece in 2 moves ? So, you turn your computer off , then >return back to your chess board and keep looking for another move ?! And you are >not curious what Nimzo propose you instead of your blunder? How many times do >you have to check your blunders and walk up and down between your chess board >and PC ? stephan said that it never happened to him that nimzo said that his move is a blunder. >Stephan, you played against Fritz and Nimzo for a few months. Did you use an >engine for your blunder check? No The conditions were not to use engines and I believe that stephan respected the conditions. After each move you published mountains of >analyzes. Were they the results of “blunder check”, or you set up chess pieces >on the board and found those 10-15 move lines yourself ? It is clear that he found by himself. If he wanted to cheat then he could probably get better result than losing 2.5-1.5 >And last thing. You are going to play on by correspondence. You still have just >Nimzo 7.32 and this is definitely not enough to compete with the other ICCF >players. You have to invest in new Fritz 8. I believe that stephan can get 2600 ICCF rating if he will use Nimzo8 in a productive way that means more than blunder check. All IM and GM use high speed PC and >if you are too honest, you have very little chances in this struggle. I believe that most of them use PC for analysis. I doubt if most of them use high speed PC. >Fritz/Tiger/Shredder is getting stronger and stronger and PCs are more and more >powerful. It becomes very difficult for a busy person to play cor. chess in >these conditions. It is a must to have a good PC + fritz on it, if he wants to >reach a sort of success in these new conditions. Fritz is only one of many alternatives. Nimzo is clearly weaker than Fritz but Shredder,Tiger,chessmaster can also be used. Uri
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