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Subject: Re: Fischer - Panno, 1970 [it's not a good test position]

Author: Mike Byrne

Date: 09:55:30 12/28/02

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On December 28, 2002 at 06:10:15, Dave Gomboc wrote:

>On December 27, 2002 at 21:09:16, Mike Byrne wrote:
>
>>On December 27, 2002 at 18:40:51, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>>
>>>On December 27, 2002 at 12:18:13, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 27, 2002 at 02:45:16, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 26, 2002 at 19:53:10, Mike S. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 26, 2002 at 19:34:25, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>28. Be4!  a super grandmaster move, by a super grandmaster.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Any programs come up with this?
>>>>>>>[d]2nq1nk1/5p1p/4p1pQ/pb1pP1NP/1p1P2P1/1P4N1/P4PB1/6K1 w - -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It looks like White can insert the zwischenzug 28.hxg6, whereafter Black has to
>>>>>>defend against the simple threat gxh7+ Kh8 (Nxh7 doesn't make much sense either)
>>>>>>Nxf7 mate, first. IOW it looks to me as if Be4 doesn't have to be played
>>>>>>immediatly (I didn't analyse much).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's often a problem with test positions when the attacker can play a simple but
>>>>>>strong threat alternatively (and delay the intended solution, so you don't know
>>>>>>if the program has missed it or is just going to play it later...).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Analysis by Fritz 7 (P3/700, 96 MB hash):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1.hxg6 fxg6 2.Nxh7 Nxh7 3.Qxg6+ Kh8 4.Qxe6 Bd7 5.Qxd5 Ng5 6.Nf5 Ne6
>>>>>>  ²  (0.63)   Depth: 8/27   00:00:00  301kN
>>>>>>  ±  (0.91)   Depth: 12/35   00:00:23  7799kN
>>>>>>1.Be4 Be8 2.hxg6 hxg6 3.Nh5 gxh5 4.Bh7+ Nxh7 5.Nxh7 f5 6.Nf6+ Kf7 7.Nxh5 Ke7
>>>>>>8.Qg7+
>>>>>>  ±  (0.94)   Depth: 12/35   00:00:38  12492kN
>>>>>>  ±  (1.09)   Depth: 13/36   00:01:09  23280kN
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>M.Scheidl
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi Mike
>>>>>I fully agree. This test position is not a good one because at least three moves
>>>>>are easily winning here, namely 1.Be4, 1.hxg6 and 1.Nxh7
>>>>>
>>>>>Below the analysis of Shredder7 ond P4 1.8/32 MB hash:
>>>>>
>>>>>New game
>>>>>2nq1nk1/5p1p/4p1pQ/pb1pP1NP/1p1P2P1/1P4N1/P4PB1/6K1 w - - 0 1
>>>>>
>>>>>Analysis by Shredder 7:
>>>>>
>>>>>1.hxg6 hxg6 2.Qh8+ Kxh8 3.Nxf7+ Kg8 4.Nxd8 g5 5.Nb7 a4 6.bxa4 Bc4 7.Nd6 Nxd6
>>>>>8.exd6 Bxa2
>>>>>  +-  (1.44)   Depth: 1/7   00:00:00
>>>>>  +-  (2.21)   Depth: 10/26   00:00:01  525kN
>>>>>1.Nxh7 Nxh7 2.hxg6 fxg6 3.Qxg6+ Kh8 4.Qxe6 Ne7 5.Nf5 Nxf5 6.gxf5 Qc7 7.Qh6
>>>>>  +-  (2.22)   Depth: 10/26   00:00:02  631kN
>>>>>  +-  (2.29)   Depth: 15/41   00:01:57  31632kN
>>>>>1.Be4 Be8 2.hxg6 hxg6 3.Nh5 gxh5 4.Bh7+ Nxh7 5.Nxh7 f5 6.exf6 Qc7 7.f7+ Kh8
>>>>>  +-  (2.30)   Depth: 15/42   00:03:52  60969kN
>>>>>  +-  (2.30)   Depth: 15/42   00:03:52  60969kN
>>>>>
>>>>>(Utzinger, MyTown 27.12.2002)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It may not be a good test position - I was just admiring the game itself.  I am
>>>>reviewing Chess Informant "DEMO BASE" with 500 annotated games selected from
>>>>various Informants.  Their new software, which I purchased, "Chess Informant
>>>>Expert 4.0"( about $52) -- is very very cool.  It allows for full import and
>>>>export of CI electronic Informants to PGN and vica-versa.  This could be very
>>>>useful in building a quality book :>).
>>>>
>>>>There are also little known secrets in acquiring all of the Chess Informants
>>>>books electronically (and legally) at modest cost.
>>>>
>>>>Chess Informant 83 CD,  includes as a special bonus, all of the Chess Informant
>>>>Games Volume 1-82 in PGN format(without annotations).  It's highlighted on thier
>>>>webpage ( http://www.sahovski.com/default.htm) , just go to the "Shop online"
>>>>select electronic editions and find the "Chess Informants 83 & 84".
>>>>You will get "Chess Informants 83 and 84 CD" for price of one(about $32).  So
>>>>for about $84, you can get Chess Informants 1-84 electronically with software
>>>>that you will allow you to export and import into PGN files.
>>>>
>>>>Michael Byrne
>>>
>>>That is beginning to sound interesting.  Can you tell me if the PGN export is
>>>run on their annotated games, then will the annotations be exported as well as
>>>the moves?  And if the answer to that is yes, then do they have a CD-ROM or two
>>>that contains all the games -- annotated! -- that can be purchased?  (But I am
>>>not interested if the annotations cannot be exported out of their proprietary
>>>format.)
>>>
>>>Dave
>>
>>Yes, annotations can be exported - but they would have to be translated.
>>
>>Something like this (onthe google post) would be your guide:
>>
>>http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=apk6bq%24243a%241%40norfair.nerim.net
>>
>>Michael Byrne
>
>They need to be translated?  I take it that it doesn't use the NAG codes defined
>by the PGN standard, then. :-(
>
>Dave

You mean these codes ....

Table 1. Numeric Annotation Glyphs

NAG Interpretation
0 null annotation
1 good move (traditional "!")
2 poor move (traditional "?")
3 very good move (traditional "!!")
4 very poor move (traditional "??")
5 speculative move (traditional "!?")
6 questionable move (traditional "?!")
7 forced move (all others lose quickly)
8 singular move (no reasonable alternatives)
9 worst move
10 drawish position
11 equal chances, quiet position
12 equal chances, active position
13 unclear position
14 White has a slight advantage
15 Black has a slight advantage
16 White has a moderate advantage
17 Black has a moderate advantage
18 White has a decisive advantage
19 Black has a decisive advantage
20 White has a crushing advantage (Black should resign)
21 Black has a crushing advantage (White should resign)
22 White is in zugzwang
23 Black is in zugzwang
24 White has a slight space advantage
25 Black has a slight space advantage
26 White has a moderate space advantage
27 Black has a moderate space advantage
28 White has a decisive space advantage
29 Black has a decisive space advantage
30 White has a slight time (development) advantage
31 Black has a slight time (development) advantage
32 White has a moderate time (development) advantage
33 Black has a moderate time (development) advantage
34 White has a decisive time (development) advantage
35 Black has a decisive time (development) advantage
36 White has the initiative
37 Black has the initiative
38 White has a lasting initiative
39 Black has a lasting initiative
40 White has the attack
41 Black has the attack
42 White has insufficient compensation for material deficit
43 Black has insufficient compensation for material deficit
44 White has sufficient compensation for material deficit
45 Black has sufficient compensation for material deficit
46 White has more than adequate compensation for material deficit
47 Black has more than adequate compensation for material deficit
48 White has a slight center control advantage
49 Black has a slight center control advantage
50 White has a moderate center control advantage
51 Black has a moderate center control advantage
52 White has a decisive center control advantage
53 Black has a decisive center control advantage
54 White has a slight kingside control advantage
55 Black has a slight kingside control advantage
56 White has a moderate kingside control advantage
57 Black has a moderate kingside control advantage
58 White has a decisive kingside control advantage
59 Black has a decisive kingside control advantage
60 White has a slight queenside control advantage
61 Black has a slight queenside control advantage
62 White has a moderate queenside control advantage
63 Black has a moderate queenside control advantage
64 White has a decisive queenside control advantage
65 Black has a decisive queenside control advantage
66 White has a vulnerable first rank
67 Black has a vulnerable first rank
68 White has a well protected first rank
69 Black has a well protected first rank
70 White has a poorly protected king
71 Black has a poorly protected king
72 White has a well protected king
73 Black has a well protected king
74 White has a poorly placed king
75 Black has a poorly placed king
76 White has a well placed king
77 Black has a well placed king
78 White has a very weak pawn structure
79 Black has a very weak pawn structure
80 White has a moderately weak pawn structure
81 Black has a moderately weak pawn structure
82 White has a moderately strong pawn structure
83 Black has a moderately strong pawn structure
84 White has a very strong pawn structure
85 Black has a very strong pawn structure
86 White has poor knight placement
87 Black has poor knight placement
88 White has good knight placement
89 Black has good knight placement
90 White has poor bishop placement
91 Black has poor bishop placement
92 White has good bishop placement
93 Black has good bishop placement
84 White has poor rook placement
85 Black has poor rook placement
86 White has good rook placement
87 Black has good rook placement
98 White has poor queen placement
99 Black has poor queen placement
100 White has good queen placement
101 Black has good queen placement
102 White has poor piece coordination
103 Black has poor piece coordination
104 White has good piece coordination
105 Black has good piece coordination
106 White has played the opening very poorly
107 Black has played the opening very poorly
108 White has played the opening poorly
109 Black has played the opening poorly
110 White has played the opening well
111 Black has played the opening well
112 White has played the opening very well
113 Black has played the opening very well
114 White has played the middlegame very poorly
115 Black has played the middlegame very poorly
116 White has played the middlegame poorly
117 Black has played the middlegame poorly
118 White has played the middlegame well
119 Black has played the middlegame well
120 White has played the middlegame very well
121 Black has played the middlegame very well
122 White has played the ending very poorly
123 Black has played the ending very poorly
124 White has played the ending poorly
125 Black has played the ending poorly
126 White has played the ending well
127 Black has played the ending well
128 White has played the ending very well
129 Black has played the ending very well
130 White has slight counterplay
131 Black has slight counterplay
132 White has moderate counterplay
133 Black has moderate counterplay
134 White has decisive counterplay
135 Black has decisive counterplay
136 White has moderate time control pressure
137 Black has moderate time control pressure
138 White has severe time control pressure
139 Black has severe time control pressure

no it doesn't use them -- but they will get an email from me - why not?  It's
not strictly in PGN compliance then.

Michael Byrne



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