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Subject: Re: I must say i disagree! No opening's.... itsNOT chess!

Author: Terry McCracken

Date: 21:07:49 12/30/02

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On December 30, 2002 at 04:17:27, Uri Blass wrote:

>On December 30, 2002 at 04:03:58, Terry McCracken wrote:
>
>>On December 30, 2002 at 00:18:30, robert flesher wrote:
>>
>>>To denude a program  of it's opening book and play fischer random ,shuffle, or
>>>whatever... will serve only to accomplish that we no long have chess. By this i
>>>mean that opening preparation plays a very critical role and engines are even
>>>tuned to understand specific chess positions. Take away Kasparov's opening
>>>knowledge and he would never have become World Champion. FACT! is Kasparov still
>>>very good at position judgment??....yes.....is he still good at
>>>tactic's??....yes. Think of the last time you were on a chess server and lost to
>>>someone who was considerably lower rated than you....OK tell me you have never
>>>lost because someone nailed you in your favourite opening because they received
>>>the lastest informant or NCO,MCO,ECO before you(and they did homework :). In the
>>>end the opening is as important and the middlegame, or endgame. IMHO ...Cheers~
>>
>>If you want to know _true_ engine power, you need to turn off the books,
>>thinking on opponents time etc.
>>
>>Alan Tomalty (Computer Chess Expert of Komputer Korner) presented this idea back
>>in 1987!
>>
>>He suggested that "thinking" on opponants time to be disabled also.
>>
>>The problem I see is, that these games need to be operated manually, due to the
>>absence of books, to avoid repeated positions.
>>
>>The SSDF doesn't have the luxury of testing engines this way, too time
>>consuming.
>>
>>The idea certainly has merit, but it boils down to how much time you lose in
>>such testing, as it can't be done by auto-play.
>>
>>Yes the opening is a vital aspect of chess, and chess can't be complete without
>>it, but this kind of testing is to rate engine strength in the middlegame,
>>mostly and endgame, without EGTB's.
>>
>>Terry
>
>endgame without tablebases?
>
>I think that it is ridicilious when some authors simply removed knowledge
>after adding tablebases.
>
>I read that nimzo cannot mate in KQ vs K positions without tablebases(these
>problem is new and nimzo could mate before the programmer added tablebases).
>
>Uri

Well that's a problem now isn't it?

I've seen programmes checkmate 14 years ago withe BN + K without EGTBS, let
alone KQ + K!!

That is preposterous that a programme can't find mate with QK + K without EGTBS!

Terry



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