Author: GuyHaworth
Date: 20:51:49 01/07/03
Go up one level in this thread
Thanks: I agree with all your comments.
Certainly, a long sequence of 'no P-moves' is of interest, even if it arises in
a DTM-minimaxing sequence rather than a DTZ-minimaxing sequence.
Btw, I am interested in another kind of 'long sequence record'. I ask "In
KRNKNN, suppose White is minimising DTM and Black is maximising DTC. What is
the longest achievable depth to capture?" It will be 243 or more, but how much
more?
To repeat, perhaps a different way, I would not expect maxDTZ to be much of a
surprise to anyone who had studied the maxDTC or maxDTM lines in an endgame.
Of course, we have DTZ =< DTC =< DTM, and DTZ =< DTR =< DTM, and as you say - if
Black is leaving White with unique value-preserving moves, then White has to
play them, whatever metric is envisaged.
DTZ EGTs are much harder to generate than DTC EGTs, so I don't expect a
definitive DTZ KNNKP EGT anytime soon. It's on the list of ICGA Challenges for
Western Chess.
Mention of the 50-move rule usually finds me repeating:
a) '> 50 moves' does not imply 'Draw' as some have said here
One side or the other has to _claim_ the draw
b) The 50-move rule has been brought in for logistical and 'apparent fairness'
reasons. [ To require the defender to defend indefinitely is biasing the game
in favour of the attacker: indeed, the maths proves that, even if the attacker
moves at random, provided they do not cede the win, they will be expected to
achieve it in a finite number of moves. ]
However, I believe that if the attacker claims a "win in N moves", and N can
reasonably be verified as the appropriate 'N', the attacker should be allowed N
moves to achieve the win.
Have we yet had an example of a computer not being allowed a win because it had
a phase longer than 50 moves (a) against a human, or (b) against another
computer?
A summary at some time of the endgames you have tackled, their maxDTM (wtm), and
file-sizes (wtm and btm) would be interesting. I think I have lost track
already.
g
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