Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: The Diepeveen Challenge

Author: Bob Durrett

Date: 16:30:51 01/15/03

Go up one level in this thread


On January 15, 2003 at 18:36:21, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On January 15, 2003 at 18:03:12, Bob Durrett wrote:
>
>>On January 15, 2003 at 14:50:28, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>
>>>On January 15, 2003 at 11:09:43, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 15, 2003 at 10:14:25, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Sorry, but this is rather insulting to Bob if you put Vincent on his level.
>>>>>Unfortunately you cloud the the whole question. In this case it's solely about
>>>>>science and logic. Now you judge that they both violate the basics. Does science
>>>>>and also logic have no meaning to you, no special value? I can't see where you
>>>>>discovered the "weak" point in Bob here.
>>>>>
>>>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>>>
>>>>Did science and logic produce a chess engine?
>>>>
>>>>Bob D.
>>>
>>>Bob the Second, what would you think "what" did it? Just human "will"? Methinks
>>>you are confusing it with the question if someone should have studied computer
>>>sciences to be able to program a World Champion. That of course is nonsense. I
>>>think that Frans is no academic and neither Richard was. But that doesn't
>>>matter. The basics of computer chess have been found by academics. And not too
>>>low estimated academics. Another question is if you could well use logic and a
>>>technique that was created by academics, even if you were no academic. Well,
>>>also this question is moote. Of course you can. But - and that is a single
>>>caveat: if you talk like V., and when it's wrong, you might accept that some
>>>expert gives you a correction. What is wrong with that?
>>>
>>>Kind regards,
>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>
>>Well, I enjoy the fruits of the labors of others.  Things like electricity and
>>chess engines, for example.  But my gut feel is that it is going too far to
>>start worshiping science and logic.  As far as logic is concerned, "logical
>>conclusions" are only as good as the unproven assumptions and the validity of
>>the "logical" steps.  Many a "logical argument" has been shot down on this
>>basis.  This is not to suggest that your logical arguments are flawed, however.
>>Nothing personal.  It's just a general observation.
>>
>>: )
>>
>>Bob D.
>>
>>Bob D.
>
>Your gut feeling is misleading you. We had a lot of debates about the value of
>science in CTF and it's clear that you can find religious beliefs in science as
>well. But that is not the point here. You say you like the products of science.
>But you remain sceptic towards science. Fine. But why rejecting basic truths by
>one of the science experts here? Expert for exactly the field where the so
>beloved engines were created. This doesn't make sense.
>
>As to the logical context you described, you are right, but where do you see
>such a violation in computer chess, meaning the points we were discussing here,
>Vincent against Bob?
>
>Please read the other message where I give two examples. Please show exactly
>where you see just little technical errors and NOT huge violations in logic.
>
>Let me state that I see a huge contradiction in your own presentation. Here you
>make the point of HUGE logical fallacies in science, that are also dangerous.
>While in the Vincent question you want to say that it's all about little
>technical errors. - The truth is that Vincent violates ver basic and highly
>important science and logic laws. - So you have an interesting technique of
>discussion. Let me call it the war on two frontiers. <g>
>
>Kind regards,
>Rolf Tueschen

Rolf, I owe you an apology.  In my warped sense of misguided humor, I was
baiting you in much the same way that Vincent baits Bob Hyatt.  I am genuinely
sorry and HATE myself for that.  The Devil made me do it!!!!

I LOVE all scientists [and chess engine programmers]!  Really!!

: )

Bob D.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.