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Subject: Re: The Diepeveen Challenge

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 17:09:16 01/15/03

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On January 15, 2003 at 19:30:51, Bob Durrett wrote:

>On January 15, 2003 at 18:36:21, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>On January 15, 2003 at 18:03:12, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>
>>>On January 15, 2003 at 14:50:28, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 15, 2003 at 11:09:43, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 15, 2003 at 10:14:25, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Sorry, but this is rather insulting to Bob if you put Vincent on his level.
>>>>>>Unfortunately you cloud the the whole question. In this case it's solely about
>>>>>>science and logic. Now you judge that they both violate the basics. Does science
>>>>>>and also logic have no meaning to you, no special value? I can't see where you
>>>>>>discovered the "weak" point in Bob here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>>>>
>>>>>Did science and logic produce a chess engine?
>>>>>
>>>>>Bob D.
>>>>
>>>>Bob the Second, what would you think "what" did it? Just human "will"? Methinks
>>>>you are confusing it with the question if someone should have studied computer
>>>>sciences to be able to program a World Champion. That of course is nonsense. I
>>>>think that Frans is no academic and neither Richard was. But that doesn't
>>>>matter. The basics of computer chess have been found by academics. And not too
>>>>low estimated academics. Another question is if you could well use logic and a
>>>>technique that was created by academics, even if you were no academic. Well,
>>>>also this question is moote. Of course you can. But - and that is a single
>>>>caveat: if you talk like V., and when it's wrong, you might accept that some
>>>>expert gives you a correction. What is wrong with that?
>>>>
>>>>Kind regards,
>>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>>
>>>Well, I enjoy the fruits of the labors of others.  Things like electricity and
>>>chess engines, for example.  But my gut feel is that it is going too far to
>>>start worshiping science and logic.  As far as logic is concerned, "logical
>>>conclusions" are only as good as the unproven assumptions and the validity of
>>>the "logical" steps.  Many a "logical argument" has been shot down on this
>>>basis.  This is not to suggest that your logical arguments are flawed, however.
>>>Nothing personal.  It's just a general observation.
>>>
>>>: )
>>>
>>>Bob D.
>>>
>>>Bob D.
>>
>>Your gut feeling is misleading you. We had a lot of debates about the value of
>>science in CTF and it's clear that you can find religious beliefs in science as
>>well. But that is not the point here. You say you like the products of science.
>>But you remain sceptic towards science. Fine. But why rejecting basic truths by
>>one of the science experts here? Expert for exactly the field where the so
>>beloved engines were created. This doesn't make sense.
>>
>>As to the logical context you described, you are right, but where do you see
>>such a violation in computer chess, meaning the points we were discussing here,
>>Vincent against Bob?
>>
>>Please read the other message where I give two examples. Please show exactly
>>where you see just little technical errors and NOT huge violations in logic.
>>
>>Let me state that I see a huge contradiction in your own presentation. Here you
>>make the point of HUGE logical fallacies in science, that are also dangerous.
>>While in the Vincent question you want to say that it's all about little
>>technical errors. - The truth is that Vincent violates ver basic and highly
>>important science and logic laws. - So you have an interesting technique of
>>discussion. Let me call it the war on two frontiers. <g>
>>
>>Kind regards,
>>Rolf Tueschen
>
>Rolf, I owe you an apology.  In my warped sense of misguided humor, I was
>baiting you in much the same way that Vincent baits Bob Hyatt.  I am genuinely
>sorry and HATE myself for that.  The Devil made me do it!!!!
>
>I LOVE all scientists [and chess engine programmers]!  Really!!
>
>: )
>
>Bob D.


So, it's true that I survived hell and devil and all? I love it. I went through
hell. Good night then and thanks for the general appreciation,
;-)
Rolf Tueschen



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