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Subject: Re: CCT5, was there something missing?

Author: Matthew Hull

Date: 16:49:17 01/20/03

Go up one level in this thread


On January 20, 2003 at 16:46:23, Uri Blass wrote:

>On January 20, 2003 at 16:31:56, Matthew Hull wrote:
>
>>On January 20, 2003 at 16:09:28, Peter Kappler wrote:
>>
>>>On January 20, 2003 at 15:38:00, Peter Skinner wrote:
>>>
>>>>With the lack of commercial products participating in the CCT, does it lose some
>>>>of the luster in winning it?
>>>>
>>>>Of course there are always going to be "what ifs" when all participants do not
>>>>play. Ferret was allowed to play without kibitzing any information. What would
>>>>have happened if Fritz joined and did the same? Would the result have been the
>>>>same?
>>>>
>>>>It seems that there was allowances made for some, and not others. Why was this
>>>>the case?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Volker told everyone who wasn't kibitzing on day 1 was told they had to kibitz
>>>on day 2, or face disqualification.  To my knowledge, everybody complied,
>>>including Ferret.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am sure if the rule had not been in place, the likes of Shredder, Fritz, and
>>>>possibly Junior would have participated.
>>>
>>>I don't think kibitzing was an issue at all.  It's obvious why Junior didn't
>>>particpate - they are busy preparing for their match with Kasparov.
>>>
>>>Rebel & Tiger have never participated.  Ed has publically stated that he think
>>>the potential for cheating is too high.  I think Christophe may share this
>>>opinion, but I am not certain.
>>>
>>>Don't know why Fritz and Shredder weren't there.  Maybe they just weren't
>>>interested, but it wouldn't surprise me if the marketing people at Chessbase
>>>discouraged them from entering.  Suppose Fritz and Shredder enter, and neither
>>>of them wins?  Quite possible, considering the strength of the field, and while
>>>none of us would find this result shocking, a casual computer chess fan might
>>>suddly wonder why they should spend their money on Fritz & Shredder when there
>>>are free amateur programs that are similar in strength.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Chess Tiger already has the ability to
>>>>kibitz the pv from the program, so that was not Christophe's reasoning for not
>>>>joining.
>>>>
>>>>I think that if a program is automated is enough to play in the next CCT. If not
>>>>then we might have the same result.
>>>
>>>
>>>I like the kibitzing rule.  It's fun to see what each engine is thinking.  I had
>>>one game where my engine's eval was almost 2 pawns different from my opponent's
>>>engine, so we began discussing the details of our evaluation functions.  This is
>>>much better than keeping all this stuff hidden and mysterious.
>>>
>>>
>>>-Peter
>>
>>
>>I agree fully with your comments.  Personally, I could care less that the
>>commercial programs were not there.  They contribute exactly zero to computer
>>chess, IMO.
>
>I disagree.
>
>I do not need them in that tournament but saying that the contribute exactly
>zero to computer chess is wrong.
>
>Ed the programmer of Rebel contributed to computer chess by discovering a lot of
>information and other programmers also may follow him in the future.


Are they sharing this information?  In general, no.  So what is the
contribution?

Matt

>
>Uri



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