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Subject: Re: GCP test suite position that I am not sure about

Author: Odd Gunnar Malin

Date: 11:18:44 01/23/03

Go up one level in this thread


On January 23, 2003 at 13:10:01, Uri Blass wrote:

>On January 23, 2003 at 12:56:01, K. Burcham wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> [D] 2k4r/1pp2ppp/p1p1bn2/4N3/1q1rP3/2N1Q3/PPP2PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Deep Shredder 7
>>
>>  8/23	 0:01 	+0.84++	14.Nd5 Qa4 15.Nxf6 Qxc2 16.Qxd4 Qxf2+ 17.Rxf2 (581.238)
>>539.1
>>  8/23	 0:01 	+0.93 	14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.cxd4 Nxe4 17.Rab1 Qxa2 18.Rfc1
>>(738.043) 549.1
>>  9/20	 0:01 	+0.94 	14.Nd5 Bxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.cxd4 Bxe4 17.Nxf7 Re8 18.Ne5 Kb8
>>(1.094.627) 560.4
>> 10/25	 0:02 	+1.19++	14.Nd5 Bxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Nxe4 17.Qa7 Bxa2 18.Rad1
>>Qxc3 (1.669.623) 562.3
>> 10/25	 0:03 	+1.31 	14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5
>>Nxd5 19.c4 Nc3 (2.017.320) 576.3
>> 11/24	 0:05 	+1.17 	14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5
>>Nxd5 19.c4 Nc3 20.Rfe1 Rd8 (3.322.082) 584.0
>> 12/32	 0:12 	+1.23 	14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5
>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 Rd8 20.c4 Nb4 21.a3 (7.400.745) 598.0
>> 13/32	 0:27 	+1.29 	14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5
>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 f6 20.Nc4 b5 21.Rxe6 bxc4 (16.428.560) 588.7
>> 14/34	 0:56 	+1.29 	14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5
>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 Rd8 (32.534.857) 578.0
>> 15/35	 2:08 	+1.12 	14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5
>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 f6 20.Nc4 b5 21.Nb6+ Nxb6 22.Rxe6 Nc4 (73.386.716) 570.7
>> 16/42	 5:04 	+1.21 	14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5
>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 f6 20.Nd3 Re8 21.Rac1 Kd7 22.c4 Nc7 23.f3 (171.076.885) 562.6
>> 17/42	11:02 	+1.05 	14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5
>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 Rd8 20.Rad1 b5 21.c4 (368.094.871) 555.9
>> 18/45	28:29 	+1.14 	14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5
>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 b5 20.Rac1 Nb6 21.Rc2 Rd8 22.Nf3 Bd5 23.Nd4 a5 (938.327.084) 548.9
>> 19/51	64:11 	+1.09 	14.Nd5 cxd5 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxd4 Qb6 17.Qxb6 cxb6 18.exd5
>>Nxd5 19.Rfe1 Rd8 20.a4 f6 21.Nd3 Rd6 22.Nb4 (2.087.116.335) 541.8
>>best move: Nc3-d5 time: 66:20.750 min  n/s: 541.737  CPU 199.7%  nodes:
>>2.156.519.795
>>
>>
>>Deep Fritz 7:
>>
>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.cxd4 dxe4 4.Rfb1 Qc2
>>  ±  (0.72)   Depth: 7/21   00:00:00  331kN
>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.cxd4 dxe4 4.Rfb1 Qc2
>>  ±  (0.72)   Depth: 8/21   00:00:00  663kN
>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.c4
>>  ±  (0.84)   Depth: 9/25   00:00:00  1040kN
>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.c4 Nc3 7.Rfe1
>>  ±  (0.81)   Depth: 10/23   00:00:01  2448kN
>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.c4 Nc3 7.Rfe1
>>  ±  (0.81)   Depth: 11/24   00:00:04  7495kN
>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 Rd8 7.Rac1 b5
>>8.c4
>>  ²  (0.69)   Depth: 12/29   00:00:10  16436kN
>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 Rd8 7.Rac1 Nf4
>>8.c4
>>  ±  (0.72)   Depth: 13/32   00:00:30  48792kN
>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 Rd8 7.a4 f6 8.Nc4
>>Kd7
>>  ²  (0.66)   Depth: 14/36   00:01:12  115903kN
>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 b5 7.Rac1 f6
>>  ²  (0.56)   Depth: 15/39   00:03:28  334758kN
>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 b5 7.Rac1 Nc7
>>8.a3
>>  ²  (0.56)   Depth: 16/40   00:09:44  930188kN
>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 Rd8 7.Rad1 b5
>>8.a3 f6
>>  ²  (0.53)   Depth: 17/42   00:20:35  1983548kN
>>1.Nd5 cxd5 2.c3 Qxb2 3.Qxd4 Qb6 4.Qxb6 cxb6 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Rfe1 Rd8 7.a4 Nf4
>>8.Rab1
>>  ²  (0.63)   Depth: 18/49   01:03:57  6138332kN
>>
>>
>>[Site "Triberg"]
>>[Date "1934"]
>>[White "Bogoljubov, E"]
>>[Black "Muller"]
>>[Result "1-0"]
>>[ECO "C68"]
>>
>>1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. Nc3
>>Bc5 6. d3 Qe7 7. Be3 Nf6 8. Bxc5 Qxc5 9. Qd2
>>Bg4 10. d4 Qb4 11. Nxe5 O-O-O 12. O-O Rxd4 13. Qe3
>>Be6 14. Nd5 Qc5 15. Qxd4 Qxd4 16. Ne7+ Kb8 17. N7xc6+
>>bxc6 18. Nxc6+ 1-0
>>
>>kburcham
>
>Thanks for the analysis but the question is if white can win
>
>It is clear that black in the game did not choose the best defence.
>The right move is simply to capture the knight.
>
>+0.6 or even +1 is not a convincing score to prove that white can win and I am
>still not sure about it.
>
>Uri

I guess the lines which probably got it into the book are:
14.Nd5! cxd 15.c3 Qxb2 16.Qxb4 dxe? 17.Ra7 (threat Qa8#) Nd7 18.Rfb1 and winning
the queen.
14.Nd5! Qc5 15.Ne7+ Kb8 16.Nxc6+ bxc 17.Nxc6+ and winning the queen.

A move like 14.Rd1 is 'a hope the opponent blunder' move 14...Rxd1 15.Rxd1
Qxb2?? 16.Qa7 +-

I guess doing 14.Rd1 as a quiet move (taking the d-file) is judged as taking a
useless file because the heavy pieces disappear.

Garding the b-pawn with 14.Nd3 is accepting that black stands better.

With 14.Nd5 you are at least half a pawn up for nothing so I think this is a
good test. Whether it is enough to win or not isn't so important as long as it
is the best move and the engine have to see a little into it to get it.

Odd Gunnar
Odd Gunnar



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