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Subject: Re: Show events ... (Lesson in Logic - Kasparov's Strength)

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 06:21:39 01/30/03

Go up one level in this thread


On January 30, 2003 at 09:09:18, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On January 30, 2003 at 09:00:19, Matthew Hull wrote:
>
>>On January 30, 2003 at 07:00:35, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>
>>>On January 29, 2003 at 22:30:38, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>>
>>>>Negative.  He is paid because he is strong, _the_ strongest.  That's what is
>>>>wanted.  That is what is hired.  His reputation is on the line.
>>>
>>>
>>>That is wrong and I can prove it. Kasparov is possibly the strongest human chess
>>>player _against_ other human players, although I doubt it because Kramnik is
>>>stronger, but this is not the question here. It's true that Kasparov is very
>>>strong against other human players in human chess. But he's not the strongest
>>>player against computers! Simply because his lack of self-control. Pulling faces
>>>is both impolite and against the known chess ethic.
>>
>>
>>Perfectly blithering, Rolf.
>
>Ok, I will also discuss with you although it's then in the second division only.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>No matter how authentic it
>>>might be in the eyes of the spectators. And more - against computers it's
>>>_absolutely_ worthless!
>>>
>>>The sole reason for Kasparov being the most wanted partner in computer chess
>>>show events is the intention to make the public believe that the strongest human
>>>player is automatically the strongest computer opponent - which is provenly
>>>false!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>His reputation
>>>>suffered badly from DB2.  If he throws games, then he has dishonored his
>>>>contract, his principles, his reputation and his soul.  That's just not
>>>>happening with this guy, IMO.
>>>
>>>I didn't say that he throws games.
>>
>>
>>Yes you did.  You said he tossed a safe win (f4) to keep the match interesting.
>>That would be "throwing" a game.  You contradict yourself.
>
>
>Throwing a game is losing a game, if you don't mind?
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>Keep your data straight, please. But it's
>>>true that all show event partners among human chess players have 'helped' the
>>>programs to win some points - from the beginning on of such show events.
>>>
>>>Here is a sentence nobody can deny:
>>>
>>>====If it's true that only now the commercially available chess programs are
>>>strong enough to win games against the best humans, then how could it happen
>>>that already 30 years ago the first programs and board computers won points?===
>>
>>The "if" statement here returns a FALSE.  So your conclusion "code" would never
>>be executed and is therefore irrelevent.
>
>So? Also the first commercial progs were strong enough? Please do not choose
>such a deep level here. Thanks.
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>Please explain that fact! How could it happen if the human chessplayers didn't
>>>help? With strength alone that could never have happened because the first
>>>programs were stupid as hell. But again prove me wrong. I wait for your answers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>IBM took a risk in hiring the strongest guy in the world to play their monster.
>>>>They gambled and won.  You can bet he was not throwing games then.  The
>>>>situation is the same.  He has something to prove.
>>>
>>>
>>>What should he have to prove?
>>
>>
>>That he is the strongest chess player, period, regardless of who is the
>>opponent.
>
>Exception Kramnik to whom he lost a match. Period.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>We are not talking about human chess. We are
>>>talking about computerchess. And there he is definitely NOT the best opponent,
>>>perhaps the best partner - in economical terms of business, yes.
>>>
>>>And a final sentence you can't deny too:
>>>
>>>===Why could Kasparov prove what he's worth in chess (computer version!) if he's
>>>now playing a program that is factor x plus a dozen aspects WEAKER than DB2? How
>>
>>
>>So you admit it.  DB2 was the strongest program.
>>
>>To answer your question, it is a matter of public perception.  Junior is the
>>current Computer world champion.  GK will want to establish his superiority over
>>the "strongest" computer competition.
>>
>>See?  Very simple.
>
>
>See? Very simplicistic?
>
>Rolf Tueschen
>
>P.S. If I'm on vacations as a boy, the other boy could pester my little baby
>sister and claim being strongest in town? Hehehe...

Deeper blue is dead and not in vacation.

Uri



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