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Subject: Re: German Kishon's relevations about DEEPJUNIOR

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 09:30:24 02/01/03

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On February 01, 2003 at 11:22:20, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On January 31, 2003 at 22:58:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On January 31, 2003 at 18:45:11, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>
>>>On January 31, 2003 at 18:40:15, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 31, 2003 at 11:05:56, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 31, 2003 at 07:56:58, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>As a careful scientist I can present the following results. The details of my
>>>>>>method must remain secret, but you are invited to read CTFfor example.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The actual program against Kasparov for the first time in history played for all
>>>>>>the psyche of a concrete human opponent. We know that Kasparov believes in
>>>>>>magic. Numbers are very important for him as symbols for something coming from a
>>>>>>hidden world. So in consequence Kasparov believes in the super-natural of chess.
>>>>>>Now what DEEP JUNIOR has done in game three is giving Kasparov the perception of
>>>>>>a position that is completely lost for the computer side. In front of a castled
>>>>>>King Kasparov saw two Knights on f6 and h6. Not enough, he had an open g-file
>>>>>>against such a configuration! And his own King could still castle to the Queen's
>>>>>>side! Three officers were directed against Black's King-side. Queen and two
>>>>>>Bishops! The black King might have felt like Israel in front of the Arab World.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But did Kasparov EVER have such a winning position against a human opponent? Of
>>>>>>course not because only patzers would play like that. And against patzers you
>>>>>>don't need your best chess. Here is the secret of the actual design of the
>>>>>>Israeli computer program. What would happen if Kasparov had to win such a won
>>>>>>position against precise calculations on the border of the allowed and possible
>>>>>>in chess? Is he prepared for such a challenge? Of course not!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You are making one assumption that may turn out to be faulty:  "The position
>>>>>was winning for white after g4 Nxg4".
>>>>>
>>>>>It looked dangerous for black.  But "looks" don't win against a computer.
>>>>>Against a human, black might well have "folded".  Just as surely as Kasparov
>>>>>folded near the end of the game.  But a computer generally won't, and during the
>>>>>game no computer ever thought white was up by as much as a whole pawn.  So it
>>>>>might just be a case of something looking dangerous but not really being
>>>>>dangerous.
>>>>>
>>>>>Computers are known for their ability to handle such positions very well, and
>>>>>the inherent problem in such positions is that quite often, there is a very
>>>>>fine line to walk as the position is played by both sides.  Anytime you put
>>>>>a human in a position where he has _one_ good choice, and _lots_ of fair to
>>>>>bad choices, for many moves, the probability of a single mistake goes way up,
>>>>>and what we saw in game three happens.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ng6+ was a solid drawing move, but Kasparov either (a) missed it (which seems
>>>>>unlikely) or (b) he thought the rook move gave him winning chances, without
>>>>>enough time to really analyze carefully.  Whichever reason really doesn't
>>>>>matter that much.  If you are the world's best "minesweeper" you still take
>>>>>a chance every time you walk on to a minefield...
>>>>
>>>>I believe that Gary not draw to play wanted and therefore Rh5 played. The cause
>>>>lies in my opinion into game 2. There Gary has one win line missed and thus
>>>>wanted it into game 3 to _absolutely_ win!
>>>
>>>:)
>>>
>>>Yes, Eduard, aber Bob versteht ja gar nicht, daß Garry in Nummer 2 gewinnen
>>>konnte. Er glaubt, daß Garry echt Glück gehabt hat gegen DJ noch diesen Remisweg
>>>gefunden zu haben... <grins>
>>>
>>>Yes Eduard, but Bob only sees that Garry could draw in Game Two, but not win.
>>>Bob thinks that Garry was lucky in finding a way out in Game Two when DJ was
>>>almost winning. <g>
>>>
>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I don't believe I ever said "he was lucky in game 2".  He made an incredibly
>>deep sacrifice offer that I'd bet he was sure the computer would take, and it
>>led to a position that gave black lots of chances.  But white made no mistakes
>>and the chances were all "vaporous" and the draw ensued.
>
>False! The chances were high enough to win! Please read the variations on
>ChessBase.
>
>Rolf Tueschen
>

False again.  I don't care _what_ "chessbase" publishes.  Kasparov said
"I later thought Qa1 was wrong and that I should have played f4, but
analysis by my group later showed that f4 also led to a draw."

That's good enough for me...

I was watching the game in real-time, and I can certainly say that no program
watching the game saw any big advantage for black after f4.  Black might have
been a bit "better".  But "better" != "winning".


>
>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So this is the answer how David could still beat Goliath. Big super powers have
>>>>>>to control a huge traffic of their own while little David must only concentrate
>>>>>>on the strategically weakest spaces and entities of the enemy. Perhaps we have
>>>>>>seen the birth of a new chess pattern. After the famous Nf8 position that often
>>>>>>can defend the whole Kingside for Black we have now the Nh6 position. This is
>>>>>>chess of the third thousand. It is worth more than three times Las Vegas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Rolf Tueschen



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