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Subject: White is winning in this line

Author: Peter Kappler

Date: 22:34:53 02/06/03

Go up one level in this thread


On February 06, 2003 at 02:16:52, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On February 06, 2003 at 01:54:19, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On February 06, 2003 at 01:30:13, J Mike wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I made the moves 16. g3 Qh2 17. f5 h5 and played Crafty vs Crafty (time control
>>>40 moves in 40 minutes)
>
>correction 16..Nh2 is way better.
>17. Kf2,Ng4+
>
>Now white must chose. I bet your beancounter is gonna play Kg2 there.
>If so then let's discuss that line later. Let's first play
>
>18.Ke1 now black plays Qh2,Nd1 (forced kind of) and now black can quietly move a
>pawn on the king side (h5) and put up the pressure to white.
>
>You sure that *any* titled player on the planet likes to play white there?
>I'll give you the judgement: "NO". White is sitting duck here for a long lasting
>game. Somewhere you make mistake and 0-1.
>


I'd happily play White here.  Just walk the king to b2 where it is perfectly
safe.  Black has nothing.

-Peter




>Doesn't take away that 18.Ke1 is best move probably. Sitting duck sometimes is
>better than losing.
>
>Ok let's follow a beancounter which wants to win badly.
>
>So back to the other line. 18.Kg2,Qh2+ 19.Kf3. While DIEP is analyzing here my
>score already drops to 0.00 nearly. A short look at the position: white cannot
>move his f1 rook because of a qf2 mate.
>
>so white can only free itself by e4 one day. black on the other hand can enter
>all pieces which is of course 20 ply to see for programs.
>
>Not a very happy position either.
>
>Of course kasparov is never going to take this. A draw is much easier.
>
>I do not find Bxh2 best move at all. Playing other move gives black advantage
>and would have won the game later. Now Bxh2 is giving a draw simply.
>Beancounter-beancounter i would not be surprised if either black wins or white
>wins. Happens. they play without a plan. if you play however with a plan here
>then black plays like a royal king so taking the draw was a good thing from
>kasparov directly saying in fact: "black doesn't have enough for the bxh2".
>
>The alternative is a slow win from black.
>
>>>the final position after move 67 is probably a draw.
>
>>Move 4.e3 i would argue.
>>
>>>Even if the sacrifice was unsafe (as it probably was), I don't think it would
>>>have been easy for Kasparov to win the game if he had played 16. g3 .. he could
>>
>>g3 is a silly attempt. Take the draw. much easier. g3 will never win for white
>>of course. this is trivial to see for even a FM. What the hell did you guys do
>>at icc?
>>
>>>have even lost it, given he had less than an hour on the clock and it was only
>>>move 16.
>>>
>>>Everyone was shocked on ICC that Kasparov didn't try to win with g3, but now I
>>
>>that's of course people just watching the beancounters at their programs.
>>g3 ain't gonna win at all for white. instead you have a long game where black
>>wins in the end. the analysis i saw so far get already wiped away by a 12 ply
>>search of DIEP here.
>>
>>>think he probably made the right decision!  This position is not as easy as it
>>>looked earlier.
>>
>>kasparov begged for a draw with his setup. if he had just 5 braincells that
>>wanted to win from junior he would know that this openingsline is a bad choice
>>because it gives black greatly the opportunity to attack at the king side. Now
>>we all know from world champs where junior joins that the program is always
>>attacking the king side of the opponent. Good or bad.
>>
>>So kasparov in advance was playing for a draw. 1.d4 and 5.e3 what a joke again.
>>this guy ain't playing serious against junior. kasparov became world champion
>>with 1.e4 and black najdorf after 1.e4.
>>
>>Now he plays openings where he is no better than any other 2550+ GM (fide
>>rating). Combined with some commercial interests into kasparovchess.com (what's
>>in a name?) and the junior team also linked to kasparovchess. Also in the sure
>>knowing that next year he'll get another match against a computer and if that
>>ain't junior he'll try go beat it.
>>
>>What do i need to say more.
>>
>>he isn't 2800+ in those lines. knowing his considerations and his mentality
>>struggle he'll be more like 2450 there.
>>
>>>I think we can say DJ's Bxh2 was an amazing move. It was a real sacrifice for
>>>initiative.  I don't think any other computer (or even older version of DJ)
>>>would have played it ..
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------
>>>
>>>1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e3 O-O 5. Bd3 d5 6. cxd5 exd5 7. Nge2 Re8 8.
>>>O-O Bd6 9. a3 c6 10. Qc2 Bxh2+ 11. Kxh2 Ng4+ 12. Kg3 Qg5 13. f4 Qh5 14. Bd2
>>>Qh2+ 15. Kf3 Qh4 16. g3 Qh2 17. f5 h5 18. b4 Nd7 19. e4 Qh3 20. Rh1 Nh2+ 21.
>>>Rxh2 Qxh2 22. exd5 Nf6 23. Qd1 Qh3 24. Nf4 Qh2 25. Nfe2 Qh3 26. Nf4 Qh2 27.
>>>dxc6 Ng4 28. Ng2 Qh3 29. Be2 bxc6 30. Qh1 Nh2+ 31. Kf2 Bxf5 32. Nf4 Ng4+ 33.
>>>Bxg4 Qxh1 34. Rxh1 hxg4 35. d5 Rac8 36. Rh5 g6 37. Rh1 f6 38. Be3 g5 39. Nfe2
>>>cxd5 40. Bxa7 Be4 41. Nxe4 Rxe4 42. Bc5 Rc4 43. a4 Rc2 44. a5 Ra2 45. Re1 Kf7
>>>46. Kf1 Rh8 47. Nc3 Rh1+ 48. Bg1 Ra3 49. Ne2 Ra4 50. Rb1 Rh8 51. Nc3 Ra3 52.
>>>Nxd5 Rh3 53. b5 Rxa5 54. Kg2 f5 55. Bf2 f4 56. Nc3 f3+ 57. Kg1 Ra8 58. b6 Rah8
>>>59. Kf1 Rh1+ 60. Bg1 R8h2 61. b7 Rg2 62. Ne2 Rh8 63. Bd4 Rhh2 64. Ng1 f2 65.
>>>Ne2 Rh1+ 66. Kxg2 Rxb1 67. Kxf2 Kg6 (result?)



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