Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: position learning question

Author: martin fierz

Date: 03:52:30 02/16/03

Go up one level in this thread


On February 15, 2003 at 22:23:00, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On February 15, 2003 at 08:29:54, martin fierz wrote:
>
>>i was thinking of implementing position learning in my checkers program, and was
>>trying to find out how this is typically done. if i understand it properly,
>>here's what people do:
>>
>>1) if the search returns a value much lower than the previous search (define
>>"much lower" as you like), write this position with it's value to the learn-file
>>on disk.
>>2) before every search, stuff positions from the learn file in the hashtable.
>>
>>this all sounds sensible to me, and i can see that this helps. however, i have a
>>stupid question about it. let's imagine that in the initial position A your
>>program is worse and decides to sac some material for a last-chance attack. a
>>few moves later, in position B, it may think that it's compensation is not
>>sufficient and drop it's score and learn this position. another 2 moves later it
>>suddenly sees that it has a perpetual check, and that the move in position A was
>>not to blame at all. i think this scenario is not quite unrealistic, and it
>>seems to me that position learning doesnt work here, because you only learn that
>>position B was bad (when in fact it wasn't). even if you were writing ALL
>>positions to disk after searching them (something i would like to do in
>>checkers), then you still haven't solved the problem: in your next search at
>>position A you will have a hash hit at position B telling you that the correct
>>move is bad, because you can't see further than your hash hit.
>>
>>hmmm. is there any workaround for this?
>>
>>cheers
>>  martin
>
>
>This is a well-known issue, and I should add that position learning doesn't
>claim to solve everything.  It is really a defense against repeating the same
>game multiple times which humans have been known to do.  But as you notice, it
>will not solve every kind of position, because of local maxima issues.  IE
>there are some holes you can not climb out because to do so means you first
>have to go for a _lower_ score, to reach the valley floor and start to climb
>up the other side...

thanks for the answer. i was afraid i was missing something, but that doesn't
seem to be the case then ;-)

cheers
  martin



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.