Author: Frank Phillips
Date: 05:48:54 02/24/03
Go up one level in this thread
On February 23, 2003 at 20:56:36, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On February 23, 2003 at 05:10:10, Frank Phillips wrote: > >>On February 23, 2003 at 00:37:56, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On February 22, 2003 at 02:01:30, Jeremiah Penery wrote: >>> >>>>On February 22, 2003 at 01:03:35, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>> >>>>>I am continually being told "how much money I can save with $100.00 cpu's and >>>>>$50.00 motherboards". Where does the assumption originate from that all people >>>>>in the market for computers are looking to save money? I am a stock broker. I >>>>>use my computer for many functions other than running chess engines. I was after >>>>>realiability and performance. >>>> >>>>For most people, the miniscule performance boost you're getting over the machine >>>>with "$100.00 cpu's and $50.00 motherboards" isn't at all worth the thousands of >>>>extra dollars you spent. In either case, the reliability shouldn't be any >>>>different. >>>> >>>>>I cannot deal stocks on a machine that has water >>>>>flowing through it to prevent a meltdown. Is this so hard to understand? >>>> >>>>It's hard to understand only because it's flat-out wrong. You don't WANT to do >>>>it. That doesn't mean you can't do it with 100% safety. >>>> >>>>>Stability was far more important to me than saving a little money and rigging my >>>>>machine to look like a fire station with hoses everywhere and water leaks. I >>>>>dont_want_to have to go out and buy freon to prevent another three-mile-island >>>>>disaster from occuring in my office. I want my machine R I G H T. The way it was >>>>>engineered. When you have to plug your computer in next to a fire hydrant I >>>>>think it's time to seriously evaluate what you are doing. >>>> >>>>Buying $100 CPUs and a $50 motherboard certainly doesn't mean you have to make >>>>your computer "look like a fire station" or that you have to use exotic cooling >>>>methods. If you buy "cheaper" AMD processors and motherboard, they will work >>>>just as well as your vaunted Xeons do with the stock air-cooling that comes with >>>>the machine. >>>> >>>>You're making some seriously unfounded statements about these issues, that have >>>>absolutely no basis in reality. >>> >>> >>>There is a _lot_ of reality in his statements. To wit: >>> >>>1. If he has a failure in the hardware, Dell will have it fixed _tomorrow_ >>>with no questions asked. Nearly everything they ship comes with a three year >>>warranty that includes next day on site maint. >>> >>>2. If your bolt it together yourself machine dies, tomorrow you will be >>>sitting on the phone discussing the problems with a variety of vendors, >>>having to justify why _they_ should replace your CPU when you obviously >>>bought a MB capable of overclocking. >> >>YMMV. Not my experience at all. I build my own, but do not overclock. All parts >>come with warranty, often 3 years. I have had a monitor changed next day home >>delivery after two years following one phone call and no argument; and a disk >>drive changed twice after 2 years (the second time, which was the replacement, a > >Fine. You have a drive failure. Can you have a replacement _installed_ an >running by 8am _tomorrow_? Nope. I buy disk drives all the time. IBM. >Seagate. Maxtor. And a week is about the best you can do. Even if you pay >for the replacement with your credit card, verifying that you will ship the >bad one back to avoid being charged. > >I have _never_ gotten anything faster than a week. Try a motherboard failure. >My dell wil be up _tomorrow_. You will still be trying to convince your >supplier to send out a new one and it _won't_ arrive tomorrow. > >That can be serious for a "must have" computer. > > > >>few days after, the 3 year period, because I could not get into the shop until >>the weekend) following trips to the shop. RAM and a motherboard where changed >>without question when I had stability problems on one machine and did a quick >>MemTest86 run. >> >>I can vouch for Dell _business_ service from the last placed I worked; but you >>should here the horror stories about major home PC suppliers here, even when >>people have paid for service contracts. > >I have had both Dell and Gateway at home. Both have been totaqlly business-like >about repairs. I had a Compaq laptop (personal machine) that developed a bad >"click" in the disk drive. Next morning my doorbell rang and a TRW guy was >standing there with a replacement drive and his took kit. > > > > >> >>I have never found DIY machines significantly cheaper, but you can put better >>components in - particularly cases, power supply, fans (and heat compound), RAM, >>keyboard.... ; and do not have to pay the £100 windows tax unless _you_ choose. >> Something that is not an option for pre built machines here. >> >>Frank >> > >I can't imagine what you can buy that way that can't be bought from a vendor >also. But, for a "gotta have it up and running or I can't eat" machine, I >want a machine with reliability _and_ service. Dell certainly fits that bill >just fine. Remember that I "rolled my own" quad xeon, and I went through >three drive failures in three years, and each one had my EGTBs down for a >week. My motherboard IDE controller went out. Before I could get a >replacement I simply bought a SCSI CD so that I could use my CD as my IDE >disk was going to be out for two weeks waiting on the MB direct from Intel, >as I had to send mine back _first_. > > >>> >>>3. He also bought a _bunch_ of disk performance. Which will cost the same >>>whether the MB is cheap (as you have to add a decent U320 SCSI controller) >>>or not (MB comes with onboard U320 SCSI). >>> >>>For someone with a machine that _has_ to be up, there is absolutely no >>>comparison between a do-it-yourself overclocker and a commercial off the >>>shelf with onsite warranty system. >>> >>>Not everyone just uses their machines for games. Some do real work. Some >>>depend on them for their very livelihood. Bob I am not taking issue with you, but DIY is not necessarily bad. I agree that if you have to have something working with minimum downtime, particularly in business, then you are best with the reliable vendors - full stop. (Or of course some backup machine.). Some of the _home_ PC vendors here (not Dell) are appalling. I had one terrible experience and so started building my own. You had to phone premium rate numbers, take the machine, wait a week, more calls....... And my experience is not unique. My experience of the supplier-of-bits shop I use is good. I turn up with a defective part, they replace it there and then without fuss and I go home and fit it. Examples in the last three years are two drives, one motherboard and one RAM stick Interesting to know if your drive failures were IBM (GXP?). Both mine where, whereas earlier IBM and Matrox are still going strong after several years Frank
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