Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 10:41:02 02/24/03
Go up one level in this thread
On February 24, 2003 at 08:48:54, Frank Phillips wrote: >On February 23, 2003 at 20:56:36, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On February 23, 2003 at 05:10:10, Frank Phillips wrote: >> >>>On February 23, 2003 at 00:37:56, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On February 22, 2003 at 02:01:30, Jeremiah Penery wrote: >>>> >>>>>On February 22, 2003 at 01:03:35, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I am continually being told "how much money I can save with $100.00 cpu's and >>>>>>$50.00 motherboards". Where does the assumption originate from that all people >>>>>>in the market for computers are looking to save money? I am a stock broker. I >>>>>>use my computer for many functions other than running chess engines. I was after >>>>>>realiability and performance. >>>>> >>>>>For most people, the miniscule performance boost you're getting over the machine >>>>>with "$100.00 cpu's and $50.00 motherboards" isn't at all worth the thousands of >>>>>extra dollars you spent. In either case, the reliability shouldn't be any >>>>>different. >>>>> >>>>>>I cannot deal stocks on a machine that has water >>>>>>flowing through it to prevent a meltdown. Is this so hard to understand? >>>>> >>>>>It's hard to understand only because it's flat-out wrong. You don't WANT to do >>>>>it. That doesn't mean you can't do it with 100% safety. >>>>> >>>>>>Stability was far more important to me than saving a little money and rigging my >>>>>>machine to look like a fire station with hoses everywhere and water leaks. I >>>>>>dont_want_to have to go out and buy freon to prevent another three-mile-island >>>>>>disaster from occuring in my office. I want my machine R I G H T. The way it was >>>>>>engineered. When you have to plug your computer in next to a fire hydrant I >>>>>>think it's time to seriously evaluate what you are doing. >>>>> >>>>>Buying $100 CPUs and a $50 motherboard certainly doesn't mean you have to make >>>>>your computer "look like a fire station" or that you have to use exotic cooling >>>>>methods. If you buy "cheaper" AMD processors and motherboard, they will work >>>>>just as well as your vaunted Xeons do with the stock air-cooling that comes with >>>>>the machine. >>>>> >>>>>You're making some seriously unfounded statements about these issues, that have >>>>>absolutely no basis in reality. >>>> >>>> >>>>There is a _lot_ of reality in his statements. To wit: >>>> >>>>1. If he has a failure in the hardware, Dell will have it fixed _tomorrow_ >>>>with no questions asked. Nearly everything they ship comes with a three year >>>>warranty that includes next day on site maint. >>>> >>>>2. If your bolt it together yourself machine dies, tomorrow you will be >>>>sitting on the phone discussing the problems with a variety of vendors, >>>>having to justify why _they_ should replace your CPU when you obviously >>>>bought a MB capable of overclocking. >>> >>>YMMV. Not my experience at all. I build my own, but do not overclock. All parts >>>come with warranty, often 3 years. I have had a monitor changed next day home >>>delivery after two years following one phone call and no argument; and a disk >>>drive changed twice after 2 years (the second time, which was the replacement, a >> >>Fine. You have a drive failure. Can you have a replacement _installed_ an >>running by 8am _tomorrow_? Nope. I buy disk drives all the time. IBM. >>Seagate. Maxtor. And a week is about the best you can do. Even if you pay >>for the replacement with your credit card, verifying that you will ship the >>bad one back to avoid being charged. >> >>I have _never_ gotten anything faster than a week. Try a motherboard failure. >>My dell wil be up _tomorrow_. You will still be trying to convince your >>supplier to send out a new one and it _won't_ arrive tomorrow. >> >>That can be serious for a "must have" computer. >> >> >> >>>few days after, the 3 year period, because I could not get into the shop until >>>the weekend) following trips to the shop. RAM and a motherboard where changed >>>without question when I had stability problems on one machine and did a quick >>>MemTest86 run. >>> >>>I can vouch for Dell _business_ service from the last placed I worked; but you >>>should here the horror stories about major home PC suppliers here, even when >>>people have paid for service contracts. >> >>I have had both Dell and Gateway at home. Both have been totaqlly business-like >>about repairs. I had a Compaq laptop (personal machine) that developed a bad >>"click" in the disk drive. Next morning my doorbell rang and a TRW guy was >>standing there with a replacement drive and his took kit. >> >> >> >> >>> >>>I have never found DIY machines significantly cheaper, but you can put better >>>components in - particularly cases, power supply, fans (and heat compound), RAM, >>>keyboard.... ; and do not have to pay the £100 windows tax unless _you_ choose. >>> Something that is not an option for pre built machines here. >>> >>>Frank >>> >> >>I can't imagine what you can buy that way that can't be bought from a vendor >>also. But, for a "gotta have it up and running or I can't eat" machine, I >>want a machine with reliability _and_ service. Dell certainly fits that bill >>just fine. Remember that I "rolled my own" quad xeon, and I went through >>three drive failures in three years, and each one had my EGTBs down for a >>week. My motherboard IDE controller went out. Before I could get a >>replacement I simply bought a SCSI CD so that I could use my CD as my IDE >>disk was going to be out for two weeks waiting on the MB direct from Intel, >>as I had to send mine back _first_. >> >> >>>> >>>>3. He also bought a _bunch_ of disk performance. Which will cost the same >>>>whether the MB is cheap (as you have to add a decent U320 SCSI controller) >>>>or not (MB comes with onboard U320 SCSI). >>>> >>>>For someone with a machine that _has_ to be up, there is absolutely no >>>>comparison between a do-it-yourself overclocker and a commercial off the >>>>shelf with onsite warranty system. >>>> >>>>Not everyone just uses their machines for games. Some do real work. Some >>>>depend on them for their very livelihood. > >Bob > >I am not taking issue with you, but DIY is not necessarily bad. I agree that if >you have to have something working with minimum downtime, particularly in >business, then you are best with the reliable vendors - full stop. (Or of >course some backup machine.). > >Some of the _home_ PC vendors here (not Dell) are appalling. I had one terrible >experience and so started building my own. You had to phone premium rate >numbers, take the machine, wait a week, more calls....... And my experience is >not unique. > >My experience of the supplier-of-bits shop I use is good. I turn up with a >defective part, they replace it there and then without fuss and I go home and >fit it. Examples in the last three years are two drives, one motherboard and >one RAM stick > >Interesting to know if your drive failures were IBM (GXP?). Both mine where, >whereas earlier IBM and Matrox are still going strong after several years > >Frank For the ones I mentioned, two were 10K IBM scsi drives (DRVS09 model) while one was a 10K seagate. The other three were maxtor drives. All repaired promptly under warranty (IBM and seagate have 5 year no-questions-asked warranties). But all took a week to get replacements in.
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