Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 20:18:15 03/18/03
Go up one level in this thread
On March 18, 2003 at 21:32:16, Matt Taylor wrote: >On March 18, 2003 at 16:41:03, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On March 18, 2003 at 15:42:56, Aaron Gordon wrote: >> >>>On March 18, 2003 at 10:12:56, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On March 18, 2003 at 00:24:01, Aaron Gordon wrote: >>>> >>>>>On March 18, 2003 at 00:01:44, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On March 17, 2003 at 22:59:30, Aaron Gordon wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On March 17, 2003 at 18:47:27, Eugene Nalimov wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I just run the experiment. I used 2 otherwise identical 64-bit systems, one with >>>>>>>>3Mb of L3 cache, other with 1.5Mb. Machine with bigger cache run Crafty's >>>>>>>>"bench" comman 12% faster (1 CPU). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>That means that >>>>>>>>(1) Crafty's working set don't fit into 1.5Mb, >>>>>>>>(2) For systems with cache 1.5Mb or less (i.e. for almost all x86 systems) for >>>>>>>>Crafty memory speed matter. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>>>Eugene >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Those types of systems aren't what people normally use. Most people here have a >>>>>>>Pentium 3, Athlon, Pentium 4, etc. Here is something I found with Crafty. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Using the Nforce2 chipset I'm able to run the ram at speeds from 50% up to 200% >>>>>>>(100% being synchronous) of the fsb speed. I tested 200MHz FSB (400DDR) with >>>>>>>200MHz memory (400DDR) and 200fsb with 100MHz memory (200DDR). >>>>>>>The difference between ~1.6gb/s memory and ~3.2gb/s memory with craftys 'bench' >>>>>>>command was 0.14%. Yes, about one seventh of one percent. >>>>>> >>>>>>That might well suggest _another_ bottleneck in that particular machine.... >>>>> >>>>>Another bottleneck? What was the original one? >>>> >>>> >>>>The original one was assumed to be bus speed. That's where I entered the >>>>discussion. But bus speed is not the _only_ issue that can cause problems >>>>here. >>>> >>>>Lack of interleaving is another. >>> >>>All modern single cpu computers have 4 way/4 bank memory interleaving. Even my >>>old dual Celeron box has 4 bank/4 way interleaving... >> >> >>Most do _not_ support interleaving. I'm _specifically_ talking about four banks >>to do >>four consecutive 8-byte reads at once, then you want for the initial 120ns >>delay, and grab >>the first 8 bytes, followed by the remaining 24 bytes on the next 3 bus cycles. >>Repeat to >>fill a cache line. >> >>I am not aware of _any_ single-cpu machines with interleaving. You have to have >>a machine >>with 4 banks, with 4 SIMMS/DIMMS/etc as well. >> >>Give me a model number for your celeron and I'll look. But Unless you have four >>separate >>DIMMS in it, it ain't doing 4-way interleaving. > >http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=398&MODEL=MS-6570 > >"Supports 600MHz up to Athlon™ XP 2700+ processor or higher" >"Support Dual channel PC3200/2700/2100/1600 DDR SDRAMs" > >The fact that it uses multiple banks is still significant because you can do 2 >random accesses concurrently for a lower average realized latency. I don't know >if this is how the chipset handles it, but they're obviously taking advantage of >it somehow. > >-Matt OK... perhaps you and Aaron are both correct here. The purpose of interleaving for duals/quads is to unbusy the memory unit as quickly as possible. IE my quad has four banks of DIMMS. So in a twisted way, that _could_ be considered 8-way interleaving I suppose, although the machine claims to have four banks and 4-way interleaving. So, if we call DIMM 2-way, then 4-way is 4X that, which is a confusing way of reporting things. A DIMM clearly can't transfer 16 bytes in a single cycle as there isn't that many pins on the thing, unless my eyes were bad when I plugged 'em in to my quad and dual. So I guess what I should say is that whatever a normal PC is doing, my quad is dong 4x that in terms of interleaving.
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