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Subject: Re: How strong is Deep Sjeng?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 11:07:45 04/01/03

Go up one level in this thread


On April 01, 2003 at 04:59:42, Uri Blass wrote:

>On March 31, 2003 at 15:38:51, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On March 30, 2003 at 05:05:34, George Sobala wrote:
>>
>>>On March 29, 2003 at 16:52:21, Jan Kiwitter wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 29, 2003 at 15:17:01, Jason Waugh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>It's style is highly customizable - it comes with a bunch of different
>>>>>personalities pre-configured, along with a personality editor to make your own.
>>>>>RE: strength.... I wouldn't buy it for it's strength compared to engine 'X' -
>>>>>but it makes an excellent complement to Chess Tiger 15 because it is so much fun
>>>>>to play --- DS for playing, CT15 for analysis.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Jason.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for you opinion! Why is it fun to play with? Does it play very active?
>>>>Regards
>>>>Jan
>>>
>>>You can make it play VERY active! See redshift running on ICC for an example -
>>>playing to a rating of about 2450 on a K6-450, very happy to make sacs in the
>>>opening and middle game. Other engines slaughter it because they defend
>>>precisely, but against humans it is different: e.g. against one IM (Chito Garma,
>>>FIDE 2415) who has played it at 3 0 blitz on this setting it has scored +61 =3
>>>-46. The very fact that he has played it 110 times suggests that there must be a
>>>fun element!
>>
>>
>>yes, but that -46 suggests that the settings while "fun" are very "bad".
>
>Everything is relative
>
>+61 suggests that the setting was better than the 2415 at 3 0 game.
>
>I think that some change in the rules is needed if you want to do blitz games
>of GM's against computers interesting and fair.
>
>A possible idea that I suggested in the past is to allow both sides to take back
>moves and times limited number of times in the game.
>
>I think that supporting this idea by chess servers is not hard to do.
>I do not know how many take backs are needed for GM's to score 50% against
>computers in blitz.
>
>Note that take back could be also without playing a move and if a player thinks
>a long time about interesting option and suddenly see that he has almost no time
>left he can ask to take back the time instead of playing a wrong move and asking
>to take back move and time.
>
>Uri

For a computer to almost break even at 3 0 is _terrible_.

I'd play any human on the planet at 3 0 and expect to win at _least_ 9 out of
every 10
games, and I have watched GM players lose 100 in a row at 3 0.  Yes, it might
draw one
here and there, and it might lose one every 20 or 30 games at worst.

But game in 3 minutes is so favorable to the computer as to be considered almost
unplayable
by anyone in the world.

There is no take-back using xboard/winboard/etc on ICC, so that doesn't happen.
But I'd
be willing to bet that to win at 3 0, they are going to need _several_ takebacks
in a single
game, and no GM player even asks for takebacks on ICC...




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