Author: Jorge Pichard
Date: 15:32:11 04/05/03
Go up one level in this thread
On April 05, 2003 at 17:52:03, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>On April 05, 2003 at 17:26:30, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>
>>On April 05, 2003 at 17:14:04, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>
>>>On April 05, 2003 at 16:32:11, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 15:21:54, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 13:12:31, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 11:33:01, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 11:00:50, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 10:53:38, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 10:30:03, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 09:41:33, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This position taken from a game considered by Alekhine to be one of his best two
>>>>>>>>>>>games ever played.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Baden-Baden Tournament, May 1925.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>White: R. Reti Black Alekhine:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>In this position Alekhine wrote " It seems almost incredible that this
>>>>>>>>>>>spectacular move not only stops White's attack but even brings him serious
>>>>>>>>>>>trouble". The only reason why Reti got into trouble was because he chose 27.
>>>>>>>>>>>Kt-B3?! Instead of the better move chosen by Fritz 8 27. bxc6! this is what
>>>>>>>>>>>Alekhine wrote " It is obvious enough that the Rook can't be taken because of
>>>>>>>>>>>27....QxP+. followed by 28.....KtxP and wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The move found by Alekhine 26....R-K6! is a great challenge for most top
>>>>>>>>>>>programs, since I have NOT found any programs that will select this move.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>[D]r3r1k1/1pq2pp1/2p2n2/1PNn4/2QN2b1/6P1/3RPP2/2R3KB b - - 0 1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This is what Fritz 8 plays after:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>1... Re6 2. bxc6 Re5 {[%emt 0:03:03]} 3. cxb7 {[%emt 0:01:40]} Rb8 {
>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:02:53]} 4. Ndb3 {[%emt 0:02:04]} Rxb7 {[%emt 0:04:25]} 5. Bxd5 {
>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:00:51]} Rb6 {(Rb8) [%emt 0:02:59]} 6. Bg2 {[%emt 0:02:29]} Re8 {
>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:04:54]} 7. Nd4 {(e4) [%emt 0:02:59]} Qe5 {[%emt 0:04:05]} 8. Qa4 {
>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:04:10]} Qb8 {(Qh5) [%emt 0:04:07]} 9. Nc6 {[%emt 0:02:51]} Rb1 {
>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:03:22]} 10. Nxb8 {[%emt 0:02:11]} Rxc1+ {[%emt 0:00:29]} 11. Rd1 {
>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:02:36]} Rxc5 {[%emt 0:01:02]} 12. Na6 {[%emt 0:02:11]} Rc3 {
>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:01:53]} 13. f3 {[%emt 0:02:25]} Be6 {[%emt 0:01:47]} 14. Qa5 {
>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:02:55]} *
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And here is the Position after 14 more moves, White is obviously winning:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>[d}4r1k1/5pp1/N3bn2/Q7/8/2r2PP1/4P1B1/3R2K1 b - - 0 14
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Here is the other brillian game considered by Alekhine to be his best two games
>>>>>>>>>>>ever played.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/lifemasteraj/bogo-alek1.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hi Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>You have not tested enough programs with enough time. There are several engines
>>>>>>>>>>to find the nice ... Re3 move. Junior7 and Gambit Tiger 2 belong to those
>>>>>>>>>>programs which only need some seconds. The solving time of other engines can be
>>>>>>>>>>found at http://www.computerschach.de/test/index.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>r3r1k1/1pq2pp1/2p2n2/1PNn4/2QN2b1/6P1/3RPP2/2R3KB b - - 0 1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Analysis by Junior 7:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>1...cxb5 2.Nxb5 Qa5 3.Rxd5
>>>>>>>>>> ± (0.84) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>>>>>>>>>1...Ne3 2.Qd3 Ned5
>>>>>>>>>> ³ (-0.38) Depth: 6 00:00:00 10kN
>>>>>>>>>> = (0.00) Depth: 9 00:00:00 191kN
>>>>>>>>>>1...Bh3 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.Nxc6 Qxc6 4.Rxd5 Nxd5 5.Bxd5 Qf6 6.Ne4 Qf5 7.Bxa8 Rxa8
>>>>>>>>>> = (-0.20) Depth: 9 00:00:00 233kN
>>>>>>>>>> = (0.20) Depth: 12 00:00:02 2107kN
>>>>>>>>>>1...Re3 2.Bf3 Bxf3 3.exf3 Rea3 4.Re2 Ra1 5.Ree1 Rxc1 6.Qxc1
>>>>>>>>>> = (0.09) Depth: 12 00:00:10 10268kN
>>>>>>>>>> = (-0.15) Depth: 14 00:00:32 32309kN
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>(Utzinger, MyTown 05.04.2003)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Reti - Aljechin
>>>>>>>>>>r3r1k1/1pq2pp1/2p2n2/1PNn4/2QN2b1/6P1/3RPP2/2R3KB b - - 0 1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Analysis by Gambit Tiger 2.0:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>1...Ra3 2.Rd3 Rxd3 3.Nxd3 Nb6 4.Qc2 Qd6 5.e3 cxb5 6.Nxb5 Qe7
>>>>>>>>>> ² (0.28) Depth: 7 00:00:00 135kN
>>>>>>>>>> ² (0.34) Depth: 9 00:00:04 1381kN
>>>>>>>>>>1...Re3 2.Bf3 Bxf3 3.exf3 Rea3 4.bxc6 bxc6 5.Rb2 Nb6 6.Qe2 Re8 7.Qf1 Re5
>>>>>>>>>> = (0.14) Depth: 9 00:00:07 2270kN
>>>>>>>>>> = (-0.06) Depth: 12 00:00:36 11847kN
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>(Utzinger, MyTown 05.04.2003)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What kind of Analysis did you run: Infinite Analysis, Full Analysis, or Deep
>>>>>>>>>Position Analysis ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Pichard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Jorge
>>>>>>>> I used "Infinite Analysis" [Alt F2] on P4 1.8/32 MB hash
>>>>>>>> Kurt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sorry I was using the wrong Analysis:New game
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Analysis by Fritz 8:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Analysis by Fritz 8:
>>>>>
>>>>>1...Re3 2.Bg2 Bh3 3.Bf3 Rea3 4.bxc6 bxc6 5.Ncb3 R8a4 6.Qc5 Qb6 7.Qxb6
>>>>>
>>>>> ± (0.78) Depth: 14/42 00:23:05 791528kN
>>>>>1...Ra3 2.Ncb3 Qb6 3.Rb2 Ne7 4.Rcb1 cxb5 5.Qxb5 Qxb5 6.Nxb5 Ra4
>>>>> ± (0.75) Depth: 14/42 00:36:53 1280447kN
>>>>> ± (0.78) Depth: 15/43 01:09:00 2416013kN
>>>>>1...Re3 2.Bg2 Rxg3 3.e3 Rxg2+ 4.Kxg2 Qe5 5.bxc6 Qh5 6.Kg1
>>>>> ± (0.75) Depth: 15/43 01:18:17 2750122kN
>>>>> ² (0.31) Depth: 16/47 03:46:07 8017463kN
>>>>>
>>>>>(Pichard, MyTown 05.04.2003)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>2.Bg2?! Rxg3! and black has some chances after the forced 3.e3.
>>>>>>3...Qe5 for example.
>>>>>>2.Bf3 and 2.Kh2 are better moves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I found this Analysis by Alekhine on his book my best games of Chess, he Wrote:
>>>>"the only chance of salvation was 2.B-B3!, BxB 3.PxB!, PxP; 4.KtxP, Q-QR4!
>>>>still with advantage for Black, as 5.RxKt? would lose immediately after 5....
>>>>R-K8 ch; 6.RxR, QxR ch followed by 7.R-R8
>>>>
>>>>Pichard
>>>
>>>He was wrong. 8.Rd8+ Kh7 9.Qh4+ Kg6 10.f4! +-.
>>>
>>>Kasparov wrote:
>>>Alas Alekhine's original attempt to complicate the position could have been met
>>>by simply 27.Bf3 Bxf3 28.exf3 ending Black's activity.
>>>
>>>Michael
>>
>>
>>I don't Agree Fritz 8 or any other top Program could force a draw against
>>Kasparov with 27.Bf3
1... Re3 2. Bf3 Bxf3 3. exf3 cxb5 4. Nxb5 Qa5 5. Rdd1 {
[%eval 34,12] [%emt 0:00:46]} Re7 {[%eval 34,12] [%emt 0:00:48]} 6. Ne4 {
(Nd6) [%eval 47,12] [%emt 0:01:05]} Nxe4 {[%eval 41,12] [%emt 0:00:47]} 7. fxe4
{[%eval 41,12] [%emt 0:00:12]} Nf6 {[%eval 53,12] [%emt 0:00:42]} 8. f3 {
[%eval 53,12] [%emt 0:01:08]} Re6 {[%eval 53,11] [%emt 0:00:37]} 9. Rb1 {
[%eval 53,12] [%emt 0:00:59]} Ne8 {(Rd8) [%eval 53,11] [%emt 0:00:35]} 10. Qc3
{[%eval 53,12] [%emt 0:00:46]} Rb6 {(Qxc3) [%eval 59,12] [%emt 0:00:29]} 11.
Qxa5 {[%eval 53,13] [%emt 0:00:40]} Rxa5 {[%eval 41,14] [%emt 0:00:13]} 12. Nd4
{(Nc3) [%eval 34,15] [%emt 0:01:01]} Rxb1 {[%eval 37,14] [%emt 0:00:26]} 13.
Rxb1 {[%eval 38,13] [%emt 0:00:07]} Nd6 {[%eval 37,14] [%emt 0:00:37]} 14. Kf2
{[%eval 31,12] [%emt 0:00:23]} Kf8 {[%eval 37,13] [%emt 0:00:43]} 15. Ke2 {
[%eval 41,13] [%emt 0:00:24]} g6 {[%eval 37,13] [%emt 0:00:42]} 16. g4 {
[%eval 44,13] [%emt 0:00:47]} Ke7 {(f5) [%eval 37,13] [%emt 0:00:57]} 17. Kd3 {
[%eval 34,13] [%emt 0:01:03]} f5 {[%eval 31,13] [%emt 0:00:50]} 18. exf5 {
[%eval 31,12] [%emt 0:00:33]} gxf5 {[%eval 31,12] [%emt 0:00:20]} 19. Nxf5+ {
[%eval 34,12] [%emt 0:00:25]} Nxf5 {[%eval 28,15] [%emt 0:00:41]} 20. Rxb7+ {
[%eval 28,13] [%emt 0:00:11]} Ke6 {(Kf6) [%eval 31,16] [%emt 0:00:42]} 21.
gxf5+ {[%eval 31,15] [%emt 0:00:16]} Kxf5 {[%eval 31,16] [%emt 0:00:37]} 22.
Rf7+ {[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:35]} Kg5 {[%eval 31,16] [%emt 0:00:25]} 23. Ke4
{(f4+) [%eval 28,15] [%emt 0:00:18]} Ra4+ {[%eval 28,15] [%emt 0:00:18]} 24.
Ke3 {[%eval 34,16] [%emt 0:01:03]} Ra3+ {[%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:22]} 25. Kf2
{(Kd4) [%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:24]} Kg6 {[%eval 34,15] [%emt 0:00:20]} 26. Rf8
{[%eval 34,16] [%emt 0:00:19]} Kg5 {(Rc3) [%eval 34,15] [%emt 0:00:21]} 27. Kg3
{[%eval 34,14] [%emt 0:00:19]} Ra1 {[%eval 34,16] [%emt 0:00:21]} 28. f4+ {
[%eval 31,15] [%emt 0:00:14]} Kg6 {[%eval 28,17] [%emt 0:00:39]} 29. Kg4 {
[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:22]} Rg1+ {[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:16]} 30. Kf3 {
[%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:15]} Kg7 {(Re1) [%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:18]} 31. Ra8
{(Rb8) [%eval 31,16] [%emt 0:00:17]} Kf6 {[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:17]} 32. Rc8
{(Kf2) [%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:22]} Rf1+ {[%eval 31,16] [%emt 0:00:21]} 33.
Ke3 {[%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:00:13]} Re1+ {[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:21]} 34. Kf2
{[%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:18]} Rb1 {(Rh1) [%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:16]} 35. Rc5
{[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:16]} Rb3 {(Ra1) [%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:19]} 36. Rg5
{(Ke2) [%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:18]} Ra3 {(Rb1) [%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:14]}
37. Ke2 {[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:16]} Rh3 {(Kf7) [%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:14]}
38. Rd5 {(Ra5) [%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:17]} Rh1 {
(Rg3) [%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:00:14]} 39. Rb5 {(Kf2) [%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:00:13]
} Rh3 {(Rg1) [%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:17]} 40. Rc5 {
(Kf2) [%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:00:10]} Rg3 {(Rb3) [%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:00:12]}
41. Rd5 {(Rh5) [%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:00:12]} Ra3 {[%eval 19,15] [%emt 0:00:11]}
42. Re5 {[%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:19]} 1/2-1/2
This is the Final position:
[D]8/8/5k2/4R3/5P2/r7/4K3/8 b - - 0 42
>Of course its a draw after Bf3.
>I dont believe Kasparov thought 27.Bf3 is better for white.
>
>He wrote that 27.Kh2 Raa3! 28.Ncb3 would have given white the upper hand.
>
>I dont think 27...Raa3 is the best move however.
What move do you consider better than 27....Raa3?!
Jorge
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.