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Subject: Re: move ordering

Author: Omid David Tabibi

Date: 23:03:05 05/11/03

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On May 11, 2003 at 12:14:18, Uri Blass wrote:

>On May 11, 2003 at 10:21:12, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>
>>On May 11, 2003 at 07:19:04, Tim Foden wrote:
>>
>>>On May 10, 2003 at 21:23:00, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 10, 2003 at 20:32:10, Matthias Gemuh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 10, 2003 at 17:49:01, Mike Siler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>When Sjeng finishes a search, it displays among its stats a move ordering
>>>>>>percentage. Does anyone know how this is calculate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Michael
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In most programs, it is the ratio FailHigh_on_fist_move/All_FailHighs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Why not use a more general figure:
>>>>ratio of "first move being the best" / "all (interior) nodes" ?
>>>
>>>I think this is because there are generally 2 types of interior nodes... one's
>>>that do fail-high, and ones that don't fail-high.
>>>
>>>In the ones that fail-high, we are very interested on the fail-high happening on
>>>the first move.
>>>
>>>In the ones that don't fail-high, we generally fail-low (due to alpha+1=beta),
>>>we don't (in general) have a best move.  And it will make hardly any difference
>>>what order we search the moves in, as we will have to look at them all anyway.
>>>
>>
>>That's true, but my point is that we shouldn't confine the figure only to
>>fail-high cases, but also consider other nodes which produce a best move.
>>Anyway, the total figure will not vary significantly.
>
>I do not understand how do you know if a move is the best during a normal
>search.
>
>Some facts:
>1)If the first move fail high it does not mean that it is the best move and the
>program only knows about a move that is good enough to refute the opponent move
>and does not search for the best move that does it.

Well, it means that the move ordering was also "good enough" :)

>
>2)If all the moves fail low you cannot know which one of them was the best
>without special search.
>
>Uri



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