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Subject: Re: Comet A.96 - Wcrafty15.20 20 games blitz match

Author: blass uri

Date: 14:29:00 10/21/98

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On October 21, 1998 at 16:29:01, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On October 21, 1998 at 09:18:57, blass uri wrote:
>
>>
>>On October 21, 1998 at 08:07:53, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On October 21, 1998 at 04:37:38, Nouveau wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>On October 20, 1998 at 12:13:16, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 20, 1998 at 10:37:36, Nouveau wrote:
>>>>>>On October 20, 1998 at 01:36:22, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here's result for 20 games match with 60/5 time limit (under Winboard):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Comet    0.5 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 0.5 0 0.5 1 0.5 0 1 0   = 8
>>>>>>>Wcrafty  0.5 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0.5 1 0.5 0 0.5 1 0 1   = 12
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So they are very close to each other in playing strength.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jouni
>>>>>>
>>>>>>12-8 is very close ??????????
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When can we say : Crafty is better than Comet ? 18-2 ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't understand these statistical stuff : I can't imagine a 12-8 result in a
>>>>>>match between 2 GM with a conclusion like "They are very close in playing
>>>>>>stregth".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why do we need hundreds, maybe thousands of games between computers to evaluate
>>>>>>relative strength, when few dozens are more than needed for human GMs ?
>>>>>Any strong conclusion from a single match is faulty.  It could be that Comet is
>>>>>500 points above Crafty, or 500 points below (although both of these are
>>>>>statistically very unlikely, really, very little has been demonstrated at this
>>>>>point from a single set of games).
>>>>
>>>>Just imagine : the match between Kasparov and Chirov takes place and the result
>>>>is : Kasparov-Chirov = 12-8.
>>>>Maybe Kasparov is 500 points above Chirov or 500 points below...Show me any
>>>>chess magazine that would print such an affirmation.
>>>>I know, those chess journalists don't have a clue on science and stats ;o)
>>>>
>>>>> The international chess bodies like FIDE
>>>>>have definitely got it right in the way that they perform evaluations using the
>>>>>ELO method.  Also, in requiring a long period of excellent results to become a
>>>>>GM.
>>>>
>>>>Can someone make the math for this : a player has a 2600 level but no rating,
>>>>how many games against a 2500 opposition does he need to reach 2600 ?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>easy here.  one game.  his rating would be 2700 after that one game, since
>>>the first N games uses the usual "TPR" type calculation.
>>
>>after 1 game you have no rating
>>you need at least 9 games to have a rating (not important if it is 2005 or 2700
>>
>>players who have 2005 rating need at least 30 games if you assume they cannot
>>earn more than 20 elo in one game.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>No idea about FIDE rules about ratings, but the USCF publishes ratings after a
>single tournament.  I have known players with ratings like this:  2244/4, which
>means provisional with only 4 games played so far.  And during the provisional
>period, the rating can fluctuate dramatically because the formula is simply
>the sum of the ratings of the opponents you beat (+400 for each one) plus the
>sum of the ratings of the opponents that beat you (-400 for each one) plus the
>sum of the ratings of the opponents that you drew, divided by the total games
>counted.  IE performance rating.  And in that light, beating a GM gives you his
>rating+400 after one game...
>
>And I assume most use K=32 nowadays (at least the ratings I have seen do this)
>which means you can go up/down up to 32 points in one game...

I remember that in fide rules K is not constant and it is bigger for players
that did not play many games.

I do not remember the exact rules but I do not know about K=32 in fide rules and
I think that K is smaller for everyone.

I know that I needed at least 9 games against rated players to get a fide
rating.

I needed 2 tournaments for a fide rating because in the first tournament I had
not 9 games against fide rated players.

Uri




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