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Subject: Re: a question for you Vincent

Author: enrico carrisco

Date: 17:03:24 07/03/03

Go up one level in this thread


On July 03, 2003 at 04:26:09, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On July 03, 2003 at 04:16:24, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>
>>On July 02, 2003 at 20:55:52, Keith Evans wrote:
>>
>>>On July 02, 2003 at 20:18:25, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 02, 2003 at 19:37:46, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>>>>>You can test how close they are to the limit. Please read:
>>>>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?304354
>>>>
>>>>You make it sound like you can state things with 100% certainty :)
>>>>What you are doing is not exact science, it's more of an ad hoc, "oh seems to be
>>>>working fine" experiment, IMO.
>>>>
>>>>This may be sufficient in many cases, I can't say it ever worked for me 100%
>>>>though.
>>>>
>>>
>>>He does not know the worst case path through the chip, and hopes that it is
>>>being exercised. The guys who wrote the BurnK7 program state that it is not a
>>>sufficient test. Basically if you run that and you have problems - then you know
>>>that you have problems. But if you run that and you don't have noticible
>>>problems, then you may or may not have problems.
>>>
>>>For example let's say that a certain ALU operation has a long delay due to the
>>>number of combinatorial gates in the path. Maybe this is what determines the
>>>maximum chip operating frequency. Well if you don't test this one operation you
>>>may think that the chip is fine because all of the other operations will work.
>>>Now you raise the temperature or frequency and the other operations start
>>>failing. So you think "wow I was close to the edge", but in reality you were
>>>over the edge and you just didn't know it.
>>
>>You can figure out how on-edge you are by doing the tests. Then as I stated in
>>my previous post you can kick the voltage up, drop the cpu temp to 'average'
>>levels, and clock back and get a 100% stable CPU. There are some production cpus
>>that can't run more than 5% over stock speed without producing the same
>>instability as one of the pretested chips I have running on-edge. I however back
>>off a good 10-15%, Intel (some P4-3.06s for example) only backs off about 5%.
>>This is too close for me. At least with my chips I know they're 100% stable. :)
>
>We may disagree on what instability is.
>I think it is possible for a chip to malfunction long before it actually causes
>a system crash, just like a piece of software can have many bugs that only
>rarely shows themselves.
>If you don't somehow very that _all_ of the CPU is operating perfectly, but only
>focuses on a few instructions, then the test is not sufficient IMO.
>
>How long would it take you to discover if 1 in a billion fpu operations are in
>error because of OC'ing, when the rest of the chip is operating perfectly?
>
>-S.

By this criterion, how do you know that your CPU is stable?  Sure, it's probably
not overclocked, but as you say:

"I think it is possible for a chip to malfunction long before it actually causes
a system crash..."

What tests do you run to verify that it has come stable from the manufacturer?

-elc.



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